Advice on building Ar15 pistol and what lower?
Hey all,
I am new here but happy to find a forum for fellow gun enthusiasts.
I am thinking of putting together an ar15 pistol but have been having trouble finding a receiver. Seems like a lot of poeple are out of them and I see a few on gunbroker but never had any dealings with these brands. Anyone got any opinions (HAHA, they always do) about the brands on here. One of them has an elk I think and the other one has a bear as a mascot on them. I have always dealt with either Colt or SGW made receivers. There is a local company (JT Dist. in Winchester KY) making receivers under the name DoubleStar I think but I guess they can't make them fast enough.
Dave [?]
I am new here but happy to find a forum for fellow gun enthusiasts.
I am thinking of putting together an ar15 pistol but have been having trouble finding a receiver. Seems like a lot of poeple are out of them and I see a few on gunbroker but never had any dealings with these brands. Anyone got any opinions (HAHA, they always do) about the brands on here. One of them has an elk I think and the other one has a bear as a mascot on them. I have always dealt with either Colt or SGW made receivers. There is a local company (JT Dist. in Winchester KY) making receivers under the name DoubleStar I think but I guess they can't make them fast enough.
Dave [?]
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I hope you realize that you answered your own question. A receiver designated as a "pistol receiver" must be used in a pistol. Adapting a receiver designated as a "rifle receiver" into a pistol will put you into "NFA Act" class III territory as you would have actually created a "short barreled rifle" (under 16" barrel). But to answer your question, Bushmaster took over the "Carbon 15" line which manufactures a nice, light receiver, designated as a pistol. I don't think you'll find anything lighter or more reliable. You can find some of them listed in the auctions here at www.gunbroker.com , including some of the original "Gwinn Firearms" Bushmaster Pistols. I have one of these original Gwinn Firearms Bushmaster Pistol from their Bangor, Maine plant in excellent condition. and I like it very much although I haven't fired it much. 0 -
On this subject I can't help you in picking a receiver for this project (just make sure it is mil spec), but what I'd like to put in is on the subject of the AR pistols in general. They aren't worth the time, money or legal hassel that they incur in building. A close friend was wow'd by the concept so he bought the best production AR pistol out there, the carbon 15 pistol. It works fine, it is also unfortunetly absolutly useless. In general after putting many hundreds of rounds thru it we/I can't find one application for which almost any other type of rifle or handgun wouldn't do a better job of. They are heavy, bulky and unwieldly, the pistol length barrel keeps the .223 from developing anything like it's normal velosity. Shooting from a bench off a bag they are ok I suppose, still in the field they suck. Just my 2 cents on the subject. 0 -
As far as receivers go, Rock River Arms, Eagle Arms, Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, and DPMS will do nicely for your pistol. I myself am partial to RRA and Eagle Arms.
Now RadCat has given you partially correct information. You cannot just use a receiver that was made into a rifle in any point in it's existence. You can go that route but you must do the Form 1 and pay the tax, and who knows what state issues you may have when it comes to building a "pistol". Where he is incorrect is that it there is no such thing as a "pistol" receiver, and the receiver does not need to be registered on the 4473 as a pistol. I would probably though have "stripped lower receiver" written on the back page of the 4473 just for good measure. Below is a copy of the question being posed to the BATF back in 1992 and their response. If it were me I would probably again send them your query so that you can get an actual letter back from them stating the ins and out, just in case any LEO or such does question you about your pistol you've constructed. And in case their rulings may have changed any since 1992.
_____________________________________
October 1, 1992
Firearms Technical Branch
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
650 Mass. Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20226
Dear Sirs:
The Greensboro, NC BATF Compliance Office suggested that I write to
you for information on the following point.
I am interested on whether it is possible to have a commercially
manufactured rifle receiver changed to be legally considered to be a handgun
receiver, and how this can be done. The Compliance Office said that this
might be possible via a "Letter of Determination", but advised me to write
to you about the criteria and procedures.
For example, if a person has a rifle receiver and wishes to have it
built into a rifle-caliber handgun suitable for steel silhouette target
shooting, comparable to the bolt action Remington XP-100 handgun. I
understand that the serial number of this receiver is recorded as being for a
rifle. Could this person have this receiver's serial number considered to be
a handgun receiver? If so, what procedures and paperwork would be
necessary.
Sincerely,
Oct 29 1992
Dear Mr. XXXXX:
This refers to your letter of October 1, 1992, in which you inquire
about the legality of manufacturing a handgun which utilizes a rifle
type receiver.
26 U.S.C. Chapter 53 # 5845(a)(4), the National Firearms Act (NFA),
defines the term "firearm" to include a weapon made from a rifle if
such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches
or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
Utilizing the receiver of an existing rifle for the purposes of
manufacturing a handgun would constitute the making of a firearm as
defined above. Individuals desiring to make such a firearm must first
submit an ATF Form 1, Application To Make And Register a Firearm and
pay the applicable $200 making tax.
If an individual were to obtain a rifle type receiver that had not
previously been utilized in the assembly of a rifle, a handgun could be
made and not be subject to the provisions of the NFA. Verification
must be obtained from the manufacturer of the receiver to establish
its authenticity.
We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we may
be of any further assistance, please contact us.
Sincerely your,
(signed)
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch0 -
try www.eaglefirearms.net they have "stag" lowers. I just ordered two more for builds. I have one m-4 style that has a stag lower. it is excellent. I believe they are the exact same as Rock River Arms lowers. they are made on the same machines in the same factory.
muss0 -
Yes, you must be carefull about embarking in a project with illegal consecuences. Years ago I wanted to build custom metallic silhouette "pistols" out of the Remington 788 left hand "rifle" receivers. After a similar communication with the ATF I was similarly informed: "that it is the original manufacturer who designates the label of pistol or rifle to a RECEIVER and then issues it a serial number, and once that serial number is issued and said receiver entered into the records it cannot be changed, except through NFA compliance following local/state provisions for ownership. The pistol receivers ARE AVAILABLE, but they do vary in the recoil spring tube mechanism, and a few internal parts. 0 -
I have Stag arms lowers and parts kits on gunbroker. I've sold many and built a few myself and the quality is excellent. If your starting there I would use stag lower and the stag parts. They are all mil spec. goes together perfect and triggers work great when done.
Dave0 -
quote:"that it is the original manufacturer who designates the label of pistol or rifle to a RECEIVER and then issues it a serial number"
.... interesting .... I guess the ATF would be the ones to make the final call.0 -
Found this on AR15.com, posted by a member called Big-Bore. This is good as it's a recent ruling and definately gives a good answer to the question of what "state" the receiver must be in prior to assembling a pistol. Though, if it were me, I think I'd still want my very own copy of the letter and then put it in a safe deposit box! But that's just me. 
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Thank You, "Green Lantern". This new information made available from the ATF can be very usefull to guide "dwhitwo254" into his project. I wish they (the ATF) had made that determination earlier in the '70's when they forced me to get a manufacturers license and spend a lot of money in R&D, when I could have bought ready made receivers from Remington at the time. One think to keep in mind though is the fact that they still do not give you a full open, blank page, insisting that you obtain "certification" from the original manufacturer that said receiver was never made into a completed rifle, in addition of the statement in the 4473. Does that mean you need to keep that certification letter handy, kind of a "get out of jail" card? But at least it leaves the door open for other similar projects with other manufacturers and type receivers. Very usefull, indeed!!!!!!!!! 0
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