Browning A-5 Identification
Fellas, I find myself continually unsure as to the Browning ID codes. What would the s/n B28566 on a 12ga A-5 mean as to manufacture date?
Ditto for s/n A2437 on a 16ga A-5?
Thanks in advance. Best, Tim
"If the zoo is closed, drop by the Senate. You'll get the
same feeling and you won't have to pay." Bob Dole
Ditto for s/n A2437 on a 16ga A-5?
Thanks in advance. Best, Tim
"If the zoo is closed, drop by the Senate. You'll get the
same feeling and you won't have to pay." Bob Dole
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Hello Tim...
If both guns have a letter prefix on the serial number (e.g. the "B" and "A"), then both were made by Remington for Browning sometime during the mid 1940s, and are they referred to as "American Brownings. WW II caused FN to shutdown production, so Browning contracted with Remington to continue production, and all those guns can be identified by the letters "A" (16 Ga.), "B" (12 Ga.), or "C" (20 Ga.) prefixes.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
B28566 (B=12ga) would fall into this group shipped from FN.
Last # shipped as of 06/30/08 was #27990.
Last # shipped as of 12/31/08 was #30446.
These were sequential and could have been A, B, or C (20ga)
A2437 (A=16ga)
Last # shipped as of 12/31/57 was #A1300
Last # shipped as of 04/30/58 was #A10990
Merry Christmas
NRA Benefactor Life Member
Browning Collectors Association0 -
quote:Originally posted by Spring Creek
B28566 (B=12ga) would fall into this group shipped from FN.
Last # shipped as of 06/30/08 was #27990.
Last # shipped as of 12/31/08 was #30446.
These were sequential and could have been A, B, or C (20ga)
A2437 (A=16ga)
Last # shipped as of 12/31/57 was #A1300
Last # shipped as of 04/30/58 was #A10990
Merry Christmas
NRA Benefactor Life Member
Browning Collectors Association
I think that you need to recheck your dates. Both the "A" series 16 gauge guns, and the "B" series 12 gauge guns were manufactured and shipped during the mid-to-late 1940s by Remington Arms.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
As we've talked about before, this is not an "Exact" Science.
We're talking two World Wars, plants and records being destroyed and
numerous changes and even repeats of prefixes and "Many" cases same
serial number with different prefix or suffix.
That's why carving an answer in "Granite" is "Impossible", but
Dang...........it sure's H3LL makes the hobby fun......... or
totally confusing.
There were imports as you speak of with these prefixes and
also "T" was used intermitently for the 16 in the 57-58 era.
Also, the total numbers in the 57-58 data would include,
other gauges and prefixes A, B, C and T.
Not to misconstrue that these were all 16ga.
These dates and #'s were from the Herstal archives and obtained
in a trip to Belgium by a friend and fellow collector/enthusiast.
The only "True" way to date the gun is to see the gun.
ie. serial # goes a long way, but proofs, addresses, butt-plate style,
engraving, checkering and numerous other identifying marks tell for sure.
Merry Christmas
NRA Benefactor Life Member
Browning Collectors Association0 -
Well... for what it is worth, every single Browning A5 that I have seen with an "A", "B", or "C" serial number prefix was a Remington built gun from the 1940s.
On a different note, do you know (or are you aquainted with) Dave Packard?
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Bert, SpringCreek - Thanks for the input. Your responses, though on the surface are disparate, are helpful indeed. The Browning ID's continue to be a challenge and I am working toward documenting (as much as I can) what all the letters and numbers mean.
There is a gunshow in New Orleans this weekend and I hope to get over there for at least a little while to cruise the "carry-ins" as well as to get a look at all the pre-Jap A-5's as I can, and take some notes - that sometimes disconcerts dealers who ask why I'm writing info about their wares but I tell them its to sort out the mysterious A-5 identification scheme. I get their names and promise them a copy of whatever I come up with in the future. I get mixed looks of agreement and skepticism. Without actually holding some of these in your hand and examining them it is often hard to know what one is dealing with - and that's just the receivers. The barrels are a whole other thing.
Bert, who is Dave Packard?
Alas, I bought a booklet titled "Browning, Dates of Manufacture, 1824 to Present" by George Madis. While I guess he made an effort, it isn't much help except to point out the difficulty analyzing the situation.
Proofhouse and the Browning website are no more helpful. Well the journey continues. Anyway, thanks again. Best, Tim
"If the zoo is closed, drop by the Senate. You'll get the
same feeling and you won't have to pay." Bob Dole0 -
quote:Originally posted by timbroman
Bert, who is Dave Packard?
My question about Dave Packard was directed more towards Spring Creek, but to answer your question, Dave is a longtime member of the Browning Museum, and he does a LOT of research on Browning made/marked firearms. I became very well acquainted with him while conducting research for the reference book that I am currently writing about the Winchester Model 1885 Single Shot.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
I am familiar with the name and may have met him at the Browning Collector's
Association 25th Convention/Gun Show in '03, which was held at Union Station in
Ogden, Utah in the same building where the Browning Museum is located.
I have met a lot of people in this hobby (especially at that function,
so many that if I'm still
not in contact with them, I don't keep track of some of them as well as
I should and no, I don't have him in my "Contact" book.
I'm sure he is very knowledgable and probably knows Glen Jensen,
Browning's Historian.
Merry "Christ"mas
NRA Benefactor Life Member
Browning Collectors Association0 -
Spring Creek - What does your reference material say about a Standard A-5 16ga s/n R74857 - 1950s? 1960s?
"If the zoo is closed, drop by the Senate. You'll get the
same feeling and you won't have to pay." Bob Dole0 -
Tim,
*This information is not to be taken as "THE GOSPEL", but only the
best I have as of today!
I want to clarify one thing, the "X" prefix was never considered
part of the "Letter Code" prefixes!
The "X" serial number "PREFIX" (NOT LETTER CODE)series began with serial
#X1001that was accepted in the warehouse on Jan. 15, 1947. However, the
earliest date a 16ga. was completed and accepted was #X1019 on Dec. 12, 1946
The earliest documented shipment to Browning is Jan. 14, 1947.
Letter codes were introduced in late 1953 to distinguish the models.
Each had its own set of serial numbers. "S" is the model code for
Sweet 16 and "R" is the model code for the Standard 16. Although FN sold
minor amounts to distributors in other countries, the vast majority of both
these series was sold to Browning.
THE 1st "R" series (Serial #R01) was shipped on November 11, 1953.
The last "R" series had been shipped as of Dec. 31, 1957.
"49" months of this series.
The last "R" serial # shipped as of 12/31/56 was R-74700.
The last "R" serial # shipped as of 06/30/57 was R-92550.
We also need to realize that the "Y" series which FN records do not indicate
whether this was "Designated" for Sweet 16 or Standard 16 or both-as both
have been found.
There was an "Over-Lapping" of "S", "R" and "Y", as the "Y" prefix
series began March 11, 1954 and ended June 27, 1974. A total of 4,773
were produced and only two were shipped to the US. The two shipped
to the US are serial numbers Y-1939 and Y-1940, shipped to Browning June
11, 1956. FN records do not indicate whether these were Sweet or Std 16's.
(However, serial # Y-1939 has been examined and is a Sweet 16 that does not
appear to differ from the same period production of the same for US market.
CLARIFICATION:
THE "A" series data I gave in earlier post was for the 57-58 series.
AS THIS WAS THE SECOND time the "A" prefix had been used and there is no
way to distinquish this series from the "A" series produced in late 1953.
In fact there are no doubt "A" Prefix with the Same serial number on
two different 16's).
NOW, Tim..............As usual this should be clear..............
as "Mud"!
Merry "Christ"mas
NRA Benefactor Life Member
Browning Collectors Association0 -
Hi according to the ""Browning Sporting Arms of Distinction"" by "'Matt Eastman"" the 12 ga serial # B28566 was made in 1949 and the 16 ga serial # A2437 was made 1946 just another book on the subject Lee 0
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