? about shotgun shells
Here is a question about shotgun shells. Do 3" mag number 4's shoot farther than 2 3/4" express number 4's? or do they only have more pellets? I use the shells for varmits. There is a big price jump between 3" mag and 2 3/4" express shells.
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it all depends on what the fps and muzzle velocity of a particular shell is. 0 -
If i knew the fps and mv I would not be asking the question. Both I am comparing are remington shells. 3" remington mag and 2 3/4" remington express. 0 -
Ben - I believe that Bobski gave you about the best answer to the question as posed inasmuch as there is such a wide selection of "3 inch mag number 4's and 2-3/4" express number 4's" ie: lead, steel, hevi-shot, buffered, plated, etc.
Also inasmuch as shot loads are measured by weight the "do they only have more pellets" aspect of your question defies a very meaningful answer. By comparison Steel Shot is 7.8 grams/cc - Lead Shot is 10.9 grams/cc - Hevi-Shot is 12 grams/cc. Therefor there will be significantly more pellets in a 1-1/4 oz load of steel shot than there are in a 1-1/4 oz load of lead and even more than in the same 1-1/4 oz load of Hevi-Shot.
The answers to some of your questions can probably best be found by comparing ballistics printed on the shell boxes themselves or going to the Remington catalog or website as their lines are ever changing.
However, here is a short answer for interested readers, and by no means the only answer. Per current Remington literature:
Express Extra Long Range Loads
12ga, 2-3/4", 1330 fps, 1-1/4 oz #4 shot (SP12)
Express High-Velocity Extra Long Range Loads
12ga, 2-3/4", 1400 fps, 1-1/4 oz #4 shot (SPHV12)
To my knowledge there are no longer comparable loads in 3" Magnum as that is now the realm of waterfowl (non-toxic) and turkey loads.
Nitro Mag Lead Loads Buffered
12ga, 2-3/4", 1260 fps, 1-1/2 oz #4 shot (NM12S)
12ga, 3", 1280 fps, 1-5/8 oz #4 shot (NM12)
12ga, 3", 1210 fps, 1-7/8 oz #4 shot (NM12H)
Nitro Steel Waterfowl
12ga, 2-3/4", 1390 fps, 1-1/8 oz #4 shot (NS12HVS)
12ga, 2-3/4", 1275 fps, 1-1/4 oz #4 shot (NS12S)
12ga, 3", 1550 fps, 1-1/8 oz #4 shot (NS12HV)
12ga, 3", 1390 fps, 1-1/4 oz #4 shot (NS12M)
12ga, 3", 1300 fps. 1-3/8 oz #4 shot (NS12HM)
Premier Hevi-Shot Nitro Magnum Buffered
12ga, 2-3/4", 1325 fps, 1-1/4 oz #4 shot (PRHSN12SM)
12ga, 3", 1300 fps, 1-1/2 oz #4 shot (PRHSN12HM)
Premier Hevi-Shot Nitro Magnum High Velocity Buffered
12ga, 3", 1450 fps, 1-1/4 oz #4 shot (PRHSNHV12M)
12ga, 3", 1450 fps, 1-3/8 oz #4 shot (PRHSNHV12HM)
Remington sells other varieties of 12 gauge 2-3/4" and 3" shells but this pretty much covers the "Express" and "Magnum" lines excluding the "turkey loads." I hope this helps some.
"If the zoo is closed, drop by the Senate. You'll get the
same feeling and you won't have to pay." Bob Dole0 -
timbroman, thank you for all your work in coming up with the numbers. I guess my question was not very clear now that you mention it. I was comparing lead #4 shot though I did not say it. From your charts it looks like 2 3/4" express shells will do as good on varmits as the mag shells so long as I get a solid hit. Thanks again for all your trouble. The knowledge on this forum still amazes me. Its a pleasure to be associated with you. 0 -
remember, people have been using 2 3/4" shells for a long time with great performance. the trend is that most hunters are going back to the bigger shells like 10ga or 3" mags, to get more pellets in the air. otherwise, a good solid 2 3/4" will do the trick every time. good luck!
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction. NRA certified instructor.0 -
Hello everyone: Well let's see the standard 1&1/4 oz lead load has been around a little over 100 years, the 1&1/2 oz Mag about 55 years, both 2&3/4 in.
The 3 in. 12 ga load has been around about 70 years in 1&5/8, 1&7/8 loads.
But the real question, is what kind of varmits, at what distance, and what choke do you have in your gun?
If you are shooting rats at 15-30 yards, 2&3/4 s fine, with almost any coke! If you are trying to shoot ground hogs at 50 yards fat chance. Trying to kill something on the ground with a shotgun, is a lot different than trying to knock a big greenhead down out of the sky. Just ask a person who hunts both ducks and rabbits.
Again before I would tell you what to use, I would want to know type of varmit, typical shooting distance, and the choke in your gun. Regards Dave0 -
Ben - Roger that. Hope I helped. I've never felt it justified the extra bucks or the harder hit on my shoulder (I'm old and bony) to shoot 3" instead of 2-3/4" but I have done so a little bit. I've got some 3" steel for waterfowl because we have a 12 ga BPS and a 12ga A-5 Mag in the house that can shoot them. I guess gas guns would take a little off the recoil, but honestly I don't see any significant difference in their effect on the game. I may be more conservative than some regarding range but when decoyed ducks or passing teal are in the pattern they come down, either dead or with broken wings. As to shot, #4 lead is a formidable load - even #6 knocks the biggest fox squirrels out of the tallest pines here.
When I was coming up most men and all boys had only one shotgun and shells were almost equally lacking in variety. The shells in our cabinet were almost always #6 shot & 00Buck. The #6 was ideal for ducks, rabbits and squirrels, a little much for doves, quail and snipe and a little light for turkeys and geese, but I imitated my Dad and his Dad and we generally got game with the #6 - the only varmits or vermin (as the old guys called them) that I remember being shot much were skunks, possums, coons, feral cats, foxes and martens and the #6 did fine for them too. I helped dress a real decent buck deer my uncle shot with #6 - a nice story for another time. I remember thinking we were really getting specialized when we started buying #7-1/2 for the birds.
Anyway, I guess #4 lead in a high brass 2-3/4" shell would handle most anything around here.
As to the velocity of the load, I don't know. Not much appreciable difference in most cases, and some 2-3/4" loads being faster than 3". Also I think the gun matters as well - probably some differences between pumps (singles & doubles), recoil-operated semi-autos & gas-operated semi-autos. All in all I think a lot of voodoo marketing in many cases and I won't even contemplate 12ga 3-1/2" shells.
"If the zoo is closed, drop by the Senate. You'll get the
same feeling and you won't have to pay." Bob Dole0 -
All things being equal, the 3-inch magnums are supposed to extend the range another 5 to 10 yards (at best) over the high brass 2 3/4" loads according to a magazine article written several years ago.
Factor this into the price of the magnum loads.
Regards,
Heavyiron
"If I don't see you nomore on this world, I'll meet you on the next one, and don't be late!" - Jimi Hendrix0 -
......A 20 gauge and a 12 gauge, both shooting 1 oz loads of #4 at say, 1350 per/second are the same......a 2 3/4 12 gauge with 1 1/4 oz and a 3" shooting 1 1/4 oz at the same velocity are basically the same load and effect.........the only advantage I see with a 3" are more shot/bigger payloads.......velocity is the key factor .......
You can't control the wind, but you can adjust your sails.....0
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