Pls help identify this Colt
I am trying to identify a revolver as a favour for a friend (who isn't on the net) and get some idea of its age and value. The only manufacturer ID on it is Colt. But I don't know if it is first or second generation or a commemorative reproduction, or just a plain reproduction.
Here is what I do know know. It is a black powder cap and ball six shot revolver. Condition is new in box. (although original box is missing) It appears to have never been fired and I would describe it as pristine. Looks like it was just manufactured. The serial number is 15852 and is the same on each component. The onwer says the caliber is .36. Although it is not marked on the gun. The six to eight inch barrel is blued, bottom of frame is brass, and the rest of the frame is case hardened. Grip is plain wood. Sailboats are engraved on the cylinder as well as "Engraved or Engaged 16th of May 1843." Also on the gun it says "Engraved by W L Ormsby New York." On the top of the barrel is says "Address Sam L (the small L is underlined) Colt New York City. Also says Colt's Patent somewhere else on the revolver but no number. I suspect the gun is a replica as it looks just too good to be an original. But there are no indications that it was made by Uberti or another replica maker. It does not say "for black powder only", nor does it have any country of manufacture listed other than the New York City on the top of the barrel as I mentioned before. From my research on the net I am sure it is an 1851 Navy... but how do I tell if it is a European reproduction or something actually made by Colt at some point?
Any help in identifying this mystery gun, its age and possible value would be very helpful.
GetaGrip
Here is what I do know know. It is a black powder cap and ball six shot revolver. Condition is new in box. (although original box is missing) It appears to have never been fired and I would describe it as pristine. Looks like it was just manufactured. The serial number is 15852 and is the same on each component. The onwer says the caliber is .36. Although it is not marked on the gun. The six to eight inch barrel is blued, bottom of frame is brass, and the rest of the frame is case hardened. Grip is plain wood. Sailboats are engraved on the cylinder as well as "Engraved or Engaged 16th of May 1843." Also on the gun it says "Engraved by W L Ormsby New York." On the top of the barrel is says "Address Sam L (the small L is underlined) Colt New York City. Also says Colt's Patent somewhere else on the revolver but no number. I suspect the gun is a replica as it looks just too good to be an original. But there are no indications that it was made by Uberti or another replica maker. It does not say "for black powder only", nor does it have any country of manufacture listed other than the New York City on the top of the barrel as I mentioned before. From my research on the net I am sure it is an 1851 Navy... but how do I tell if it is a European reproduction or something actually made by Colt at some point?
Any help in identifying this mystery gun, its age and possible value would be very helpful.
GetaGrip
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Hello Are you SURE it has a 5 digit serial? The last first gen black powder colt 1851 navy was serial 215xxx the 2nd gen colts were Made BY/FOR colt and started where the first gen numbers stopped. Please check . Neither 1st or 2nd gen colts had any for black powder only markings Other brands may or may not but most "not all" should have foreign proof marks . Pictures would help 0 -
Your friend's revolver is a .36 caliber "Second Generation" Model 1851 Colt Navy. When Colt introduced the Second Generation "C Series" squareback Navies in 1971, they began with Serial #4201. Serial #15852 was manufactured in 1975. 
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Thank you Spider. Manufactured in 1975 would fit this gun given its out of the box like new condition. Can you please explain what "second generation" means when applied to Colts? Are these actually from the Colt factory, or are they made for Colt (by Uberti or someone?) and released under the Colt name? Also, it would be helpful if I could tell my friend the approximate value of the piece. Just ballpark.. are we talking a couple of hundred dollars, or more?
Thanks again,
This is really helpful as I have spent hours trying to research this gun without luck until I found this great forum.0 -
These are all listed in the Colt Section of the 13th Edition of the Standard Catalog of Firearms:
"REPRODUCTION COLT PERCUSSION REVOLVERS
Model 1851 Navy Revolver
Made from 1971 to 1978; serial numbers 4201-25100 and 24900-29150.
NIB - $395
Exc. - $400 (misprint?????)
V.G. - $325
NOTE: The above revolvers were manufactured in a variety of styles (cylinder form, stainless steel, etc.) that affect prices. Factory engraved examples command a considerable premium over the prices listed above."
Also listed......
"COLT BLACKPOWDER ARMS Brooklyn, New York
These blackpowder revolvers and rifles are made under license from Colt.
Colt 1851 Model Navy
This is medium-frame revolver chambered in .36 caliber with 7 1/2" barrel. Walnut grips and case color frame.
NIB - $435
Exc. - $375
V.G. - $325
Good - $275
Colt 1851 Model Navy with Du7al Cylinder
NIB - $475
Exc. - $400
V.G. - $350
Good - $300"0 -
There's an excellent article in Guns & Ammo magazine about the rebirth of the Second and Third Generation blackpowder Colts at http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/cap_ball/
"Second Generation" was simply a term used by collectors for the reintroduction of Colt's revolvers. After all, they couldn't be called a "replica" of their own product so "Second Generation" was appropriate for a rebirth. The 1971-1973 models were actually assembled at the Colt factory (parts manufactured in Italy under Colt specifications) and later moved to the Iver Johnson factory in Fitchburg, Mass. by Lou Imperato. Mr. Imperato also produced the "3rd Generation" blackpowder series and now owns the Henry Repeating Rifle Company in the former Colt Blackpowder Company facilities in Brooklyn, NY.
I hope this helps! - Spider0 -
Just want to say that I am constantly amazed at the knowledge of members found on this forum. Great going y'all.
Franko0 -
I too am amazed at the depth of knowledge. This has been a great help. I'll be reporting the info to my friend later today.
A thanks to all and Happy Holidays...
GetaGrip0
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