HELP WITH OLD WINCHESTER SHOTGUN!!
Howdy Folks! I'm back to the Oracle(s) again as I find myself out of my element knowledge-wise. I have plenty of general books to refer to, but none are dedicated Winchester Collector books, and since the firearm I am looking at is old and expensive, I feel you people are my best bet!! I see that the general price range on an 1887 lever-action shotgun 40,xxx serial range is somewhere between $350 and $1800 dependent upon condition and desireability factors. This is a private sale, and I therefore have no pictures, but am really looking for advice not only on price, but WHAT CRITERION I should be most concerned with when evaluating this piece? In other words, what should I be looking for and also looking OUT for!
As far as description goes, it has a "30 full choked barrel that has a SLIGHT degree of pitting (would still rate at 90%); uncheckered, lightly marked original oil finished wood, with one major scratch down the left side of the buttstock about "6 long and about the depth of a pencil lead, otherwise the wood (NO cracks, splits or checks)would rate at about 75% I should think. Original buttplate (flat) and the rest of the blued metal retains about %60 original blue. The cursive WRA logo on the left side of the reciever is present and quite sharp; appears as though it has not been polished etc...the case color on the reciever is almost all gone with a little left in protected areas and the patterns of the case have turned to shades of grey. It looks to be a utilitarian gun to me with no extra features and fortunately nothing added to it! The mechanism operates perfectly and quite smoothly, and the lockup feels very tight to my standards. Last patent date is 1886, so I'm pretty sure it is not a 1901. Overall, if I were to apply a percentage condition number, I would estimate a %75 combining mechanics AND cosmetics.
Thats about all I can think of, and wish I could post photo's, but I have no access to the gun as it is in a neighboring state. So, what do you guys think? Is the 1887 as desireable in general as the 1897? Perhaps most importantly, what tips can you give me when looking for signs of scurrilous (sp?) refinishing/restoration, what are the key traits to look for? At the $900 range, do you think I am taking a bath?
As always, I appreciate any and all help you can give me and opinions are just as welcome! Thanks in advance, and I look forward to reading your fine post's, as I always do!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"When I was 14 I used to marvel at how ignorant my old man was...by the time I was 21 I was truelly amazed at how much the old bugger had learned in the intervening 7 years!" Samuel Clemens
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)
As far as description goes, it has a "30 full choked barrel that has a SLIGHT degree of pitting (would still rate at 90%); uncheckered, lightly marked original oil finished wood, with one major scratch down the left side of the buttstock about "6 long and about the depth of a pencil lead, otherwise the wood (NO cracks, splits or checks)would rate at about 75% I should think. Original buttplate (flat) and the rest of the blued metal retains about %60 original blue. The cursive WRA logo on the left side of the reciever is present and quite sharp; appears as though it has not been polished etc...the case color on the reciever is almost all gone with a little left in protected areas and the patterns of the case have turned to shades of grey. It looks to be a utilitarian gun to me with no extra features and fortunately nothing added to it! The mechanism operates perfectly and quite smoothly, and the lockup feels very tight to my standards. Last patent date is 1886, so I'm pretty sure it is not a 1901. Overall, if I were to apply a percentage condition number, I would estimate a %75 combining mechanics AND cosmetics.
Thats about all I can think of, and wish I could post photo's, but I have no access to the gun as it is in a neighboring state. So, what do you guys think? Is the 1887 as desireable in general as the 1897? Perhaps most importantly, what tips can you give me when looking for signs of scurrilous (sp?) refinishing/restoration, what are the key traits to look for? At the $900 range, do you think I am taking a bath?
As always, I appreciate any and all help you can give me and opinions are just as welcome! Thanks in advance, and I look forward to reading your fine post's, as I always do!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"When I was 14 I used to marvel at how ignorant my old man was...by the time I was 21 I was truelly amazed at how much the old bugger had learned in the intervening 7 years!" Samuel Clemens
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)
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Hello this model used to go begging. But because of the new found interest in "cowboy" shoots "WASS","SASS" the prices have gone up. Even if you have tight lockup I would only shoot the lightest modern loads. As far as price this piece is out of advanced collector interest because of condition.This leaves you with what I hope you don't take as a "short" answer, but the right price is one that both the seller and buyer are happy. You could find one cheaper BUT how far and how long would you have to look.I have heard that NORINKO is going to produce a replicia but if anything like the AWA lightning rifle I think I will pass. 0 -
Hello Bill,
Yes, it is a Model 1887 (the serial numbers for the Model 1901s were continued from the Model 1887 sequence). Also, the Model 1901 was only made in 10 Gauge and it was made with a blued frame only versus case color.
As for what to look for, carefully inspect the forestock slats, as they were the weak spot on the gun. Concerning the current values, very, very few Model 1887s will sell for only $350... the usual starting point is about $650 (parts gun). In my opinion, the Model 1887 is a much more desirable than the Model 1897 for several reasons; (1) 100% of them made are bonafide "Antiques" whereas very few of the Model 1897s qualify. (2) There were a LOT fewer Model 1887s made (65,000 approx.) making it a considerably rarer firearm. (3) It is a Lever-action.
If the asking price on the gun you are looking at is $900, then it sounds like a fair price (so no, you would not be taking a bath on it).
If you intend to shoot it, there are several concerns; (1) it was designed for blackpowder only, and (2) it has a short 2-5/8" chamber(assuming that it is a 12 gauge since you didn't say).
Hopefully this helped answer you question(s)
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Thanks guys! This gives me a good place to start. Sounds to me as though it may be worth at least investigating further. It seems to compare favorably with many of the (granted few!) 1887's I'm seeing on various sites. Bert, you always seem to know what I'm asking about regardless of what I'm asking about! As always thanks for the sage advice and anyone, please feel free to contribute further!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"When I was 14 I used to marvel at how ignorant my old man was...by the time I was 21 I was truelly amazed at how much the old bugger had learned in the intervening 7 years!" Samuel Clemens
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0
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