Bluing Question
I have a Japanese Browning A5 I recently bought that had somw pitting on one side of the reciever. I am guessing that it was just stored poorly, but anyways I am going to reblue and refinish it in order to get it pretty again. Now I went to Brownells.com to pick up some supplies to do this and I have a few questions I ran into before I get underway.
1. I cannot sand the pitting down in one or 2 spots, it is too deep. So what can I buy in order to fill in the pitting such as solder, or weld? I know you guys usually discourage amateurs from doing this sort of thing, but I have welded and used solder many times while working as a bodyman in a bodyshop so I know about metalwork and I have the tools, just not nough knowledge about the chemiclas and what they can and can not do pertaining to this.
2. If I use solder what kind of bluing should I do in order to give a good finish? Some solder on Brownells can withstand a hot dip, or would a Belgian blue, Dicropan, or Pilkiington slat blue give a better finish.
3. If I do use solder or weld is it possible for me to use Blue Wonder as an alternative to hot dip or water bluing? The pitting is extremely isolated to a few parts of the reciever, whil the remaining blue is about 99%. If I ccould use this it would save me alot of time stripping the entire gun and going through the pain of hot water bluing or taking it to a gunsmith and getting charged to have it dipped? I see no reason to strip the whole gun for 2 or 3 little areas. And would I have to use weld or solder for this if at all possible. I do like the product very much as I did my grandfathers old Savage 620 and it turned out great and is holding up much better than any cold blue. I know aloy of you guys have your preference of finish but I am really on a fact finding mission here. I love the look of hot blue and salt(or Hot water) blue alike, but I really would prefer to use the Blue Wonder atleast for now that is until I get some more cash and bluing equipment of my own.
Thanks guys I appreciate the help
1. I cannot sand the pitting down in one or 2 spots, it is too deep. So what can I buy in order to fill in the pitting such as solder, or weld? I know you guys usually discourage amateurs from doing this sort of thing, but I have welded and used solder many times while working as a bodyman in a bodyshop so I know about metalwork and I have the tools, just not nough knowledge about the chemiclas and what they can and can not do pertaining to this.
2. If I use solder what kind of bluing should I do in order to give a good finish? Some solder on Brownells can withstand a hot dip, or would a Belgian blue, Dicropan, or Pilkiington slat blue give a better finish.
3. If I do use solder or weld is it possible for me to use Blue Wonder as an alternative to hot dip or water bluing? The pitting is extremely isolated to a few parts of the reciever, whil the remaining blue is about 99%. If I ccould use this it would save me alot of time stripping the entire gun and going through the pain of hot water bluing or taking it to a gunsmith and getting charged to have it dipped? I see no reason to strip the whole gun for 2 or 3 little areas. And would I have to use weld or solder for this if at all possible. I do like the product very much as I did my grandfathers old Savage 620 and it turned out great and is holding up much better than any cold blue. I know aloy of you guys have your preference of finish but I am really on a fact finding mission here. I love the look of hot blue and salt(or Hot water) blue alike, but I really would prefer to use the Blue Wonder atleast for now that is until I get some more cash and bluing equipment of my own.
Thanks guys I appreciate the help
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HELLO I think you will be out of luck unless you weld up the pit with mig/tig welder and then you most likely will still not get a match in finish because different alloy between weld and the rest of receiver Plus I dont like heat on any firearm may change the heat treatment of the gun. I think the best you can do is reblue to protect what is left of gun. Most any "COLD BLUE" is nowhere near as long lasting as HOT blue 0 -
Well on the old twist barreled shotguns you could use solder and still get a uniform finish so why would this be any different. Solder is solder as long as it is meant for guns. I have an old 1890's sxs that is soldered together and there are no visible lines and there shouldnt be if I use it on this I would think. I mean it wouldnt be on a gunsmith supply store if it didnt work. 0 -
Hello a joint is just that a joint with maybe .001 of an inch of solder so you dont see the solder a pit is a mch larger flat surface my suggestion is take a piece of scrape steel sand it bright and put some solder on it and then try to match your cold blue on the steel to your cold blue on the solder. If you get a match I owe you lunch. twist steel barrels were hammer forged not soldered. 0 -
What you propose is beyond what a seasoned gunsmith would attempt. It is impossible to do a reblue on a surface that is part steel and part solder and get them to look alike. They are two different metals and will react differently to whatever chemical finish is applied. It might be possible to do a successful electroplate finish of some kind. That would depend on getting the bare metal surface polished the same way; again a near impossible challenge. Filling the pitting with weld could be done and the surface re-polished, with questionable success in refinishing due to the probable difference in the added weld metal and the receiver metal. The heat as noted above will likely distort and affect the heat treat, if any existed. If there is enough material and I just had to refinish such an area, I would make up a grinder to run in my drill press using a 4 1/2" flap wheel sanding disk. That can give a nice surface but depends on it being flat in the first place. Small 4 1/2" high speed hand grinders can be bought for $20 or less and the flapper wheels for about $10. That rig is capable of some real nice work but depends on a steady hand. Hope this helps.
Been there - done that!0 -
Well I am sure that Turnbull resorations has to do stuff like that to restore firearms. I have seen some of the work and he made a pitted and rusted peacemaker look like new. If I cant do he weld, which I am going to try and I am sure it will blue well. Brownells has a speiclal welding rod that is supposed to blue just like the normal steel. Alot of guys use it for sporterizing mauser 98 bolts. An if that doesnt work I may just use the new KG gunkote gun blue color to make it look like new again. I have seen this on Mauser central and the mauser looked just like a deep polish blue. The reciever may not match perfectly but look how many new shotguns have a black aluminum reciever and a blued barrel. 0 -
It appears you had your direction and method chosen before asking.What was the purpose of your question???? Just curious....
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob0 -
The purpose of my question is to tap the minds of others to just see what the general concensus is. 2 heads are better than 1 I say. I awnted to guage the possibility of success and difficulty. 0 -
Well I am sure if your attempt turns out as well as Doug Turnbull that you will be able to retire from auto body work and make big buck as a gun restorer and Turnbull will be despondent that he spent decades learning his craft. Please post pictures of finished product and if it is that good I will pick up lunch for you and everyone else that posted on this topic. 0 -
Just a thought, Wehrmacht, but you're going to have to strip the weapon completely in order to weld,sand and buff. So why not avoid the heat treatment problems from welding, and instead mask off the good areas and electroplate iron or steel on to the pitted area? 0 -
Hey everyone I appreciate the input, and thanks for the original idea robkelly2242 and for the helpful tips rhmc24. As for the few others who got a bit sarcastic with me I am sorry to have asked for opinions in the Ask the Experts forum and to have insulted your intelligence. I figure since I have worked in a body shop and dealt with polishing aluminum and stainless steel as well as chrome prep that I would be able to work with it and I think I still can but perhaps I will use the kg gunkote to fill in the pits and get it pretty. Or I will strip it all down and fill with hi temp solder or weld and get the think plated with nickel and get a nice two tone finish. I never implied that I am as good as Turnbull, infact I know I couldnt fix some of the guns that look to have been dug out of the ground like he has. But for 4 small but deep pits I think it is not beyond me. Sure I may have to play with it and learn as I go. 0 -
Learning to engrave is an option to think about. Just like some people use tattoos to hide imperfections on their body you could just engrave the pitted area or the whole firearm for that matter and never see another pit. 0 -
Your questions, in order:
1) This is not auto body work. Bondo does NOT apply. Welding into the pits requires adding enough of the CORRECT material then blocking down the entire receiver, recutting engraving, etc.
2) Solder will not blue. Period.
3) Sounds like you want as many shortcuts as possible. The end result will reflect that.
You are about to trash a Browning A5. I suggest you practice on some $30 pawnshop parts gun first.
Scrappy Doo sleeps with the fishes.0 -
Country G said it all, especially, try it on some scrap gun and develop the skill/method so it will work for you. Good luck! 0 -
Thanks CountryGunsmith for the straight forward answer, and rhmc24. I have an old POS Sears pump 410 to try it out on. If that doesnt work I have a friend who is a professional tool and die maker and very good with guns. He is great at engraving and he owes me a favor so I can probably get him to engrave the sides of the gun and then I can put a new blue on it, or I may have him nickel plate it. I didnt pay too much for the gun and since I have 3 other A5's in great condidition. I just wanted to make thsi one as nice as well an dgive it a possible coustom flair. 0
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