Preference or Superiority - Bersa or Kel-Tec 9mm?
Looking for a sub-compact 9mm for my wife as a CCW. Is there a significant difference in quality or features of the Bersa Thunder and the Kel-Tec P11? I've read that the Kel-Tec could use some adjustments, such as the trigger pull, but understand that can be easily fixed. Any suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks.
The buck has gained considerable velocity by the time it gets to my desk.
Thanks.
The buck has gained considerable velocity by the time it gets to my desk.
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I question if you can improve the P11 trigger pull enough for a woman to handle it. The Keltec P3AT is easier but after a couple of magazines, your hand will tremble. 0 -
Not familiar with a Bersa in 9mm...but the 380 is a very nice compact little pistol. The 380 can be had, locally, for $200 retail. The Thunder 45 is extremely reliable, relatively inexpensive, and having shot one several times, can attest to it's ability to digest any ammo it's fed.
Never fired a Kel-Tec...so can't speak about it
John
The original point and click interface was made by Smith & Wesson0 -
Working at a gun shop, I've been seeing alot of Keltecs come in for service with broken trigger mechanisms (4 lack of better term). I seen at least 3 come in with triggers that won't reset. Could be a fluke though.
I had a Bersa Thunder 9mm (fulsize), good accurate pistol. I bought it because it was complete ambidexterous. Only complaint was that the controls were really tiny.
Regards,
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I think both of them suck. get a walter of a little sig.
respect for the rights of others is peace (Benito Juarez)0 -
I disagree strongly with brecht. The Bersa Thunder 9 is a great design, almost a clone of the Walther P88, and the two I have are quality pistols. If the design had been made by a major manufacturer, it would have been considered an instant classic. It is one of the few fully ambidextrous designs ever made. I do not have a current compact version, but assume they would be the equal of the Pre-Ban Thunder 9 full-size pistol.
That said, the compact Thunder 9 is MUCH larger and heavier than the Kel-Tec P11. I am a huge fan of the P11. I chose to carry it in its size and power category over every other pistol of any price or manufacturer.
If brecht is suggesting a Walther PPK or PPK/S in .380ACP instead of the P11, be aware that the PPK/PPK/S is less powerful, much heavier, holds fewer rounds, is about twice the price and, since it is pure blowback, it kicks harder in .380 than the P11 does in 9x19 with its locked breech. The double action pull on the PPK redefines "heavy."
By a "little sig" (SIG is an acronym and should be all uppercase), I assume brecht means the Model 232. The M232 is larger than many 9x19 compact pistols, is only .380, is twice as heavy (unless it is the alloy version) as the P11, is again pure blowback and again costs much more. If the Model 239 is the "little sig" suggested, the 9x19 M239 is much larger and heavier than the P11 and holds fewer rounds.
In my opinion, the trigger pull on the P11 is not nearly as heavy as some have suggested above. It is as good as many double-action-only pistols of major brand.
Another big advantage of the P11 is that it uses the Smith & Wesson 5900 series magazine pattern, so one can carry a M5906 15-round magazine as a spare.
I would buy the P11. Run a couple of hundred rounds through it to check it out. Most are totally reliable out of the box, but if it is not, send it back and Kel-Tec will make it right.0 -
Stopped by the shop the other day, we have 2 more Keltec P11's going back to the factory for broken trigger springs.
Regards,0 -
I'm with v35. I have a P11,and it's all I can do to pull the trigger. I'm not familiar with the Bersa, but it can't possibly be worse. Sorry to step on toes, but the only thing the P11 has going for it is price and weight.
There are no bad guns, only bad people.0 -
So where were all you P11 NAYSAYERS when I was asking the question? [:(!]
And this forum is called "Ask the EXPERTS?" [:0]
Seems just about any old lump with digits to peck on a keyboard is an EXPERT on here, huh? [;)]
It's a good thing the Gun Show is tomorrow and I still haven't spent my money on a Kel-tec....yet! [8)]0 -
Again, I disagree with those who find the Kel-Tec P11 unsatisfactory.
When the Kel-Tec P11 was introduced at the 1995 SHOT Show, I saw it as the answer to my wishes for a light, very compact carry pistol. The fact that it held 11 rounds was a big plus. Upon return from the SHOT Show, I began seeking to purchase one. I ordered four from several distributors and finally got four very low three digit guns. I kept the lowest number for myself, and have carried it and shot it extensively since then. Mine has been totally reliable. Of the other three in that first shipment, one had to go back for adjustment. It has been fine since its return. Since then, I have sold quite a few more to those looking for very compact carry pistols, and have not had another that had to go back. I recognize that, compared to a dealer who sells hundreds of P11 pistols, my experience is not statistically relevant. Still, my experience gives me complete confidence in carrying a P11 for self-defense.
While the P11 trigger pull is not target quality by a long shot, it is not much different when compared to other double-action-only pistols. I believe over 100,000 P11 pistols have been sold by now, and they are generally satisfactory to that large owner group. If they were as bad as some have said here, they would not be so well received.
I have evaluated every compact 9x19 pistol that has come on the market in the last 25 years, and find that the P11 best suits my requirements of small size, light weight and high capacity. Price has nothing to do with my decision.
Ramtinxxl, apparently you asked a similar question about the P11 and got favorable responses. Do not let this thread discourage you from trying one.
Anyone thinking about a P11 should check out the Kel-Tec owners' group (KTOG) to learn the experiences of many owners.0 -
Kel-Tec's are so bad I own three,the little P-32 on the low right side has 00048 for a serial number.Love them all.[^] 0
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