Llama .45 info please
Just picked up a Llama 1911 clone for $200. It is only marked Llama 38-9mm Automatic on the right side of the rail and on the left side Automatic Pistol PT.G.C.S.L. Pat Oct 10 1913 etc. 9mm. Excellant shape. It is a bit outside my usual purveyance. When was it made? What's it worth? I looked in some of my books, and zip on this particular Llama is in them. Also, the seller said it was regular 9mm Luger, and he had shot it; it isn't .38 super is it?
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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jonk, don't take my word at this, but I remember that several years ago (back in the 1970's) a gun dealer I knew (now out of business) loved getting a particular Llama 45 clone because it would shoot virtually anything fed to it, from .380 auto to .38 super, including 9mm Luger. I have not seen any of these for several years, maybe because people blew them up feeding so much different ammo through them and shouldn't have. I don't know, but I do know he was always trying to buy these and sold several. I never owned one, but always wanted one. I have not even seen any formal information on these. It could be yours is one of them, I don't know, but do some deeper checking on it. If it will chamber .38 Super and the dealer you bought from has shot 9mm parabelum in it, I would suspect it is one of these. But do some checking.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
I doubt seriously that it is 38 Super. Break it down and slide a 9mm round in it and see what happens. If the bullet settles on the lands, you MIGHT have to tap it out with a dowel. But it is clearly marked 9mm...and that is all I would shoot in it. My 2 cents worth.
John
The original point and click interface was made by Smith & Wesson0 -
The plot thickens; It isn't just stamped 9mm it is stamped 38-9mm. Which is? SOmeone said this is the 9mm Largo designation. Or 9X23. I dropped a loaded 9mm Luger round into the removed barrel, and I had to tap it out with a dowel; furthermore, it seemed to settle so deep that it was flush with the chamber, that is, I am not convinced the extractor would grab; so then I reassembled the gun and go and drop a primed brass case in (no bullet) and let it slam shut, figuring if it is chambered for 9X23 Largo or something exotic, it would just knock the case foward into the chamber and not extract; but no, it seated on the extractor, fired the primer, and ejected fine when I worked the slide. Strange.... anyone with more info, weigh in.. thanks.
UPDATE: I found an old 38 super cartridge in my collection of junk and carefully chambered it.... it chambered just fine. I think it was hit on the head, this is one of those guns designed to fire everything; I have found more references to it on the web now. More info?
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf0 -
its a 38 super ,and worth twice what you paid for it ,while llama does not have a good rep ,the gun you have slipped by as a good gun
and incase you didn't know ,it is pronounced yama
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Hello "jonk"[:)]
I am not exactly the brightest bulb in the string---I have had several Llama 1911 clones. Not a one of the worked worth a hoot. I sent all of them back to "Stoger" and they kept them for an inordinate length of time. You could not keep them on a 4X8 sheet of plywood at 25 meters much less keeping them within 12 centimeters. Finally in each case, I had to call the CEO of Stoger Industries and they sent me a different firearm in replacement. A "Super Comanche" in .44 magnum---wasn't inpressed with this one either, but a heck of lot better than the 1911 clone. The other two, they replaced with "Omni's". Got rid of the 9mm Parabellum quickly and later the .45 auto. The only Llama that I still have is the .380 micro-max, which is OK as a "glove-box" handgun.
On the 1911 clones that I had, you could NOT interchange magazines with a standard 1911 Colt. The Colt or secondary manufactures' magazines would NOT work in the Llama's.
Best Regards To You And Yours During The Thanksgiving Holiday Season[:)]
AdamsQuailHunter---who had a great time catching "yearling" bass on a "live shrimp rod" and 3 three pound test line Saturday. Unfortunately , not one of them was over 16 inches, so they had to be released immediately.0 -
quote:Originally posted by AdamsQuailHunter
Hello "jonk"[:)]
I am not exactly the brightest bulb in the string---I have had several Llama 1911 clones. Not a one of the worked worth a hoot. I sent all of them back to "Stoger" and they kept them for an inordinate length of time. You could not keep them on a 4X8 sheet of plywood at 25 meters much less keeping them within 12 centimeters. Finally in each case, I had to call the CEO of Stoger Industries and they sent me a different firearm in replacement. A "Super Comanche" in .44 magnum---wasn't inpressed with this one either, but a heck of lot better than the 1911 clone. The other two, they replaced with "Omni's". Got rid of the 9mm Parabellum quickly and later the .45 auto. The only Llama that I still have is the .380 micro-max, which is OK as a "glove-box" handgun.
On the 1911 clones that I had, you could NOT interchange magazines with a standard 1911 Colt. The Colt or secondary manufactures' magazines would NOT work in the Llama's.
Best Regards To You And Yours During The Thanksgiving Holiday Season[:)]
AdamsQuailHunter---who had a great time catching "yearling" bass on a "live shrimp rod" and 3 three pound test line Saturday. Unfortunately , not one of them was over 16 inches, so they had to be released immediately.
I don't know which particular .45 Llama you had, but my Llama .45 Goverment Model functions flawlessly with ANY of the 1911A1 Colt magazines (or other after market makers) that I own. Additionally, many of the internal parts are interchangeable.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Does anyone have the address or phone number where I can get ahold of someone at Stoger? Thanks, Kssandman1... 0 -
Safety First!
Older weapons should not be used with maximum loads. Additionally, some weapons will fit and fire cartridges that are expressly dangerous. One of the more common ones is the ".38" marked on the slides of guns usually before 1930 or so. The .38 on the slide refers to .38 ACP and not the more modern and common .38 Super. The Hornady manual says it better than I can: "The 38 ACP became obsolete in 1929 when Colt introduced the more powerful 38 Super Automatic, an improved version of the .38 ACP loaded to much higher pressures. The cartridges are identical in appearance, but the Super version is dangerous if fired in handguns designed for the original cartridge... Under no circumstances should 38 Super factory ammo or top equivalent reloads be fired in weapons chambered for the older 38 ACP."0 -
quote:Originally posted by kssandman1
Does anyone have the address or phone number where I can get ahold of someone at Stoger? Thanks, Kssandman1...
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/0 -
The last model 1911 style uses standard 1911 magazines. The earlier ones use a different Llama only magazine. Unfortunately, that appears to be the only thing that is is directly interchangable with a 1911. 0 -
Grunt2 is absolutely right.
This pistol is intended to fire two cartridges only--9mm Largo, the Spanish army ctg. for many decades (It is 23mm long but it is NOT the present 9x23 ctg. and that shouldn't be fired in it--'WAY too hot) and .38ACP (which is now hard to find). DON'T shoot .38 Super in this gun. At best it will wear it out too fast. At worst you might get to eat the slide.
Real Llama .38 Supers are very clearly marked ".38 Colt Super Automatic" in BIG letters with NO reference to 9mm. It also isn't a 9x19mm or 9mm "Luger." Shooting them in it will damage the gun if they fire at all.
This whole topic has been dealt with MANY times on boards specifically dedicated to Spanish handguns (the "Spanish Handguns" board in www.gunboards.com and the Sociedad Largo site www.9mmlargo.com). Search your gun for a "date of proof code" (explained at either of the sites mentioned). That'll tell you when it was made at least.
In my experience (bitter experience, some would say) GOOD Llamas are as good as any handgun. I have a 1970s vintage Commander-size .38 Super from Stoegers (note spelling in case you want to do a search)that is pure gold. I know of others that work perfectly (the revolvers seem to be more consistent in quality).
However, their quality control has long sucked and there are definately some serious lemons out there. "Newer is worse," I think--a good reason to check the date code. Look under the grips if it isn't obvious on the right side of the frame. It has to be on the frame, by Spanish law.0
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