Value and Info on Civil War era Springfield
I recentely acquired a very old metal cartridge rifle from the Civil War era that I beleive was made by Springfield. I am trying to get more information about it and wonder if you can shed any light as to what it is and what it's worth. Condition is about 70%. Only the cleaning rod appears to be missing.
The rifle appears to be a trapdoor model of .50 caliber. I do not know the chamber length as yet.
It is about 51 1/2 inches long with a barrel measuring about 32 1/2 inches. It has a hammer that cocks much like a musket under which is a trapdorr that opens for cartidge loading. There is a half cock and it appears that the gun can be loaded either at full or half cock.
On the right side of the trigger guard from left to right it says "1863" and has an eagle engraved and then on the right says "U.S." with "SPRINGFIELD" underneath.
On the left side it simply has a serial number of "32750"
The gun has front and rear sling swivels and two barrel bands with the wood terminating a few inches short of the muzzle.
At the extreme front of the trigger guard on the flat underside the is an "A" punched. In the wood underneath the soldier's name who must have used it is punched into the wood using what appears to be single letter punches since all of the letters are not exactly aligned. The name is "BRENON"
Finally it has a simple blade front site and a rear graduated site that can be raised or lowered. It is marked from bottom to top 2, 3, 5, 7 and 9. Directly behind the site are the last obvious markings. It has the number "187" with what appears to be an eagle sitting on two crossed arrows points facing down and finally on the bottom is again says "U.S."
Thanks.
Chuck from NJ
The rifle appears to be a trapdoor model of .50 caliber. I do not know the chamber length as yet.
It is about 51 1/2 inches long with a barrel measuring about 32 1/2 inches. It has a hammer that cocks much like a musket under which is a trapdorr that opens for cartidge loading. There is a half cock and it appears that the gun can be loaded either at full or half cock.
On the right side of the trigger guard from left to right it says "1863" and has an eagle engraved and then on the right says "U.S." with "SPRINGFIELD" underneath.
On the left side it simply has a serial number of "32750"
The gun has front and rear sling swivels and two barrel bands with the wood terminating a few inches short of the muzzle.
At the extreme front of the trigger guard on the flat underside the is an "A" punched. In the wood underneath the soldier's name who must have used it is punched into the wood using what appears to be single letter punches since all of the letters are not exactly aligned. The name is "BRENON"
Finally it has a simple blade front site and a rear graduated site that can be raised or lowered. It is marked from bottom to top 2, 3, 5, 7 and 9. Directly behind the site are the last obvious markings. It has the number "187" with what appears to be an eagle sitting on two crossed arrows points facing down and finally on the bottom is again says "U.S."
Thanks.
Chuck from NJ
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Check out this site; you can enter your gun's serial number and it will give you the pertinent data on it:
http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
BUSH AND CHENEY--NO MORE YEARS!0 -
Hello Chuck,
There is good news and bad news about your rifle. First, your rifle was not used in the Civil War. Your rifle is known as the U.S. Allin Conversion Rifle Model of 1866. Starting in 1865 the U.S. government was looking for ways to convert the millions of muzzle loading muskets made during the war to some kind of breach loader. I won't go into all the different designs that were submitted and tested as there have been books written on the subject. In any case, the Army decided to go with the Allin trapdoor system. The first model (Model 1865) was in caliber .58 rim fire. Improvements were made to the action and the caliber was reduced to .50 caliber by reaming out the barrels and sweating in a .50 caliber barrel liner. The rear sight was also changed, but all of the other parts remained the same as the origional Civil War musket that it had been made from and that includes the dates.
To sum up your rifle is the Model 1866, chambered for the .50-70 center fire cartridge. 25,000 muskets were converted to Model 1866's at Springfield Armory.
Your rifle should have a 40 inch barrel and three barrel bands. Since your rifle has been cut down (most likely for a boys school) it affects the value quite a bit. I would guess a value of $500-$800.
Hope that this has been of some help to you.
Scout0 -
It may be that the rifle was used during the War for Southern Independence. It may have been used as a muzzle loader & then converted afterward. 0 -
Gruntled,
You way well be correct, however, the reports of the Supertendant of Sprigfield Armory states that the muskets that were coverted to breach loader were all new weapons that were taken out of storage at the Armory.0 -
Chuck,
Sounds like a standard Springfield Trapdoor in 45/70 caliber. It's hard to place a value on it without photo's, but the average price is around $600.00.
njretcop@copmail.com
Charlie0 -
Hello Charlie,
None of the Model 1873 caliber .45-70 Trapdoor rifles and carbines were made with Civil War dated parts. All breach blocks are dated 1873 or 1884 except the shotgun which is dated 1881. Some internal lock parts and trigger guards will interchange with their Civil War counterparts. Some Civil War bayonets had their sockets swaged down to fit the smaller diameter .45 caliber barrels, but, by and large all of the parts for the Model 1873 were of new manufacture.
The left over Civil War muskets were declared surplus and sold off through commercial outlets.
All the best,
Scout0 -
The first and second Allin conversions were not serial numbered. 0 -
Scout,
You are absolutely correct if his breech block in dated 1869 or 1870. That is why photos are important.
njretcop@copmail.com
Charlie0 -
Airborne,
You are correct in that the first Allin conversions were not serial numbered. However, nearly all Model 1866's, 1868's, and 1870's were numbered on the left side of the barrel and some times also on the receiver. They should have the initials E.S.A. inside an oval on the left side of the stock, under or just behind the rear lock screw.0 -
I do beleive it is 50 caliber and not 45. I can clearly see 1863 on the gun and all the other markings noted are easily legible. I can't see a barrel liner but there may be one none the less.
I will post pictures so you guys can evaluate it further.
Thanks,
Chuck
Chuck from NJ0
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