1918 Santa Fe Jungle Carbine MK1
We have a Santa Fe Jungle Carbine MK1 made by California State Arms in 1918. We are considering putting it up for auction but have no idea of where, how or what starting price we should ask. Could you give us some information? The rifle is in excellent condition.
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Your rifle was originally manufactured for the military forces of the British Empire. If it is dated 1918? it was No.1 MK III SMLE.
Golden State Arms of Pasadena California reworked/rebuilt it into a knock-off of the Number 5 MK 1 "Jungle Carbine" in the 1950' or 60's.
Since it's not a original "Jungle Carbine", my 2 cents is that it would be worth between $100 & $200.
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This was sent in error. See next reply.quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
Your rifle was originally manufactured for the military forces of the British Empire. If it is dated 1918? it was No.1 MK III SMLE.
Golden State Arms of Pasadena California reworked/rebuilt it into a knock-off of the Number 5 MK 1 "Jungle Carbine" in the 1950' or 60's.
Since it's not a original "Jungle Carbine", my 2 cents is that it would be worth between $100 & $200.0 -
Oops, I hit the wrong button. It is dated 1918. The model is 12011, serial J90924. It has the original ammo clip.
quote:Originally posted by JoshsSpy
We have a Santa Fe Jungle Carbine MK1 made by California State Arms in 1918. We are considering putting it up for auction but have no idea of where, how or what starting price we should ask. Could you give us some information? The rifle is in excellent condition.0 -
quote:Originally posted by JoshsSpy
Oops, I hit the wrong button. It is dated 1918. The model is 12011, serial J90924. It has the original ammo clip.
quote:Originally posted by JoshsSpy
We have a Santa Fe Jungle Carbine MK1 made by California State Arms in 1918. We are considering putting it up for auction but have no idea of where, how or what starting price we should ask. Could you give us some information? The rifle is in excellent condition.
This might be of interest to you, I got it off the net after a cursory Google search.
http://members.optushome.com.au/lee-enfield/sp3.htm0 -
Thank you for sending me to that site. It was very informative. However, the rifle shown on the site is not the same as the one we have. The most noticeable is the barrel, which has a flare at the end. I'm doing this for my husband and I'm not very knowledgeable about weapons. Under the bolt is a:
crown
GR
B.S.A.C. (or O.) with an insignia of some sort
1918
SHT LE (or F)
III with what looks like a tiny Star of David next to it.
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
quote:Originally posted by JoshsSpy
Oops, I hit the wrong button. It is dated 1918. The model is 12011, serial J90924. It has the original ammo clip.
quote:Originally posted by JoshsSpy
We have a Santa Fe Jungle Carbine MK1 made by California State Arms in 1918. We are considering putting it up for auction but have no idea of where, how or what starting price we should ask. Could you give us some information? The rifle is in excellent condition.
This might be of interest to you, I got it off the net after a cursory Google search.
http://members.optushome.com.au/lee-enfield/sp3.htm0 -
Welcome Josh-
Unfortunatly "Santa Fe" conversions have never been in great demand...to put it mildly. Golden State Arms converted many different military rifles into sporters, or attempted to "Recreate" collectable versions such as yours.A true Jungle Carbine was not available in 1918. While most that are out there are safe to shoot, they just don't have a following.I think Rufes value is a good ballpark. As a sidenote, in the early 60's[as a teenager],I shopped at GoldenState Arms in Pasadena and saw racks of "Satnta Fe" conversions. It was a facinating shop,however, since they also offered hundreds of authentic military firearms and accessories!!!!
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob0 -
quote:Originally posted by JoshsSpy
Thank you for sending me to that site. It was very informative. However, the rifle shown on the site is not the same as the one we have. The most noticeable is the barrel, which has a flare at the end. I'm doing this for my husband and I'm not very knowledgeable about weapons. Under the bolt is a:
crown
GR
B.S.A.C. (or O.) with an insignia of some sort
1918
SHT LE (or F)
III with what looks like a tiny Star of David next to it.
Kindly refer to my first post.
Your rifle was manufactured in 1918 by the Birmingham Small Arms Company, as a Number 1, Mark 3, "Short Magazine Lee Enfield "= SMLE.
It was converted into it's present "SPORTERIZED" configuration by Golden Start Arms over 40 years ago. It has no value to a military rifle collector, because of the above "SPORTERIZATION". The "flare" on the end of the barrel is a "REPLICA" flash hider that Golden State fabricated to give it the appearence of a authentic Number 5 Mark 1 "Jungle Carbine". If it was a authentic "Jungle Carbine" it whould be dated in the mid 1940's not 1918.0 -
Thank you both for the information. Am I understanding that this company took an original WWI rifle and reworked it to make it collectible? Is that something weapons manufacturers do normally?
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
quote:Originally posted by JoshsSpy
Thank you for sending me to that site. It was very informative. However, the rifle shown on the site is not the same as the one we have. The most noticeable is the barrel, which has a flare at the end. I'm doing this for my husband and I'm not very knowledgeable about weapons. Under the bolt is a:
crown
GR
B.S.A.C. (or O.) with an insignia of some sort
1918
SHT LE (or F)
III with what looks like a tiny Star of David next to it.
Kindly refer to my first post.
Your rifle was manufactured in 1918 by the Birmingham Small Arms Company, as a Number 1, Mark 3, "Short Magazine Lee Enfield "= SMLE.
It was converted into it's present "SPORTERIZED" configuration by Golden Start Arms over 40 years ago. It has no value to a military rifle collector, because of the above "SPORTERIZATION". The "flare" on the end of the barrel is a "REPLICA" flash hider that Golden State fabricated to give it the appearence of a authentic Number 5 Mark 1 "Jungle Carbine". If it was a authentic "Jungle Carbine" it whould be dated in the mid 1940's not 1918.0 -
quote:Originally posted by JoshsSpy
Thank you both for the information. Am I understanding that this company took an original WWI rifle and reworked it to make it collectible? Is that something weapons manufacturers do normally?
The only reason G. S. A. did this was to make money out of it. During that time frame ( 50's & 60's) their was very collector interest in W W I era British Military Rifles. A "Knock-Off" of the Jungle Carbine would be much viable as a profit source. It wasn't only English stuff, they were equal opportunity Bubbas they butchered anything they could make a buck on.0 -
"Thank you both for the information. Am I understanding that this company took an original WWI rifle and reworked it to make it collectible? Is that something weapons manufacturers do normally?"
GoldenState is not a manufacturer...they just altered original firearms.
GoldenState and Gibbs Rifle Company[Navy Arms] are notorious for this. I feel they have undermined the entire field of collecting....especially for those new to the game.They took[GoldenState] and are taking [Navy Arms] surplus arms readily available and attempting to create false models and variations!!!
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
Rufe- Don't ya just hate these outfits that whack up good ol' surplus rifles and try to pass them off as something special??0 -
So...Here's an ignorant question for you. I could wait until my husband gets home but it's bugging me. On that site you sent me to it described the 'bolt in the white'. What does that mean??
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
quote:Originally posted by JoshsSpy
Thank you both for the information. Am I understanding that this company took an original WWI rifle and reworked it to make it collectible? Is that something weapons manufacturers do normally?
The only reason G. S. A. did this was to make money out of it. During that time frame ( 50's & 60's) their was very collector interest in W W I era British Military Rifles. A "Knock-Off" of the Jungle Carbine would be much viable as a profit source. It wasn't only English stuff, they were equal opportunity Bubbas they butchered anything they could make a buck on.0 -
"In the White" means no finish has been applied to the metal.
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob0 -
My husband and I were told the rifle was originally issued to an 18-year old English soldier who was killed almost right away. I don't know how true that is. I do know that it seems terribly cavalier to rework a weapon used in a major war and that has historical significance.
quote:Originally posted by Hangfire
"Thank you both for the information. Am I understanding that this company took an original WWI rifle and reworked it to make it collectible? Is that something weapons manufacturers do normally?"
GoldenState is not a manufacturer...they just altered original firearms.
GoldenState and Gibbs Rifle Company[Navy Arms] are notorious for this. I feel they have undermined the entire field of collecting....especially for those new to the game.They took[GoldenState] and are taking [Navy Arms] surplus arms readily available and attempting to create false models and variations!!!
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob0 -
I hope you didn't pay anything for the story[8D]
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob0 -
No, thank God! The rifle was payment for a carpet job. And we made out in spite of everything.
quote:Originally posted by Hangfire
I hope you didn't pay anything for the story[8D]
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob0
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