Reloaders with dillon presses, question:
I'm looking into picking up a new progressive press, either a RCBS Pro-2000, or a dillon 550, or perhaps a 650. I'm pretty well convinced that the dillons would end up costing alot more in the long run. I would like to be reloading probabably about a dozen calibers, some more than others. Mostly .223, 38/.357, .40 S&W, .44Mag, .308, 300WM, ect.
First when you buy a new press does it come set up for one caliber already?
Second, do you need to buy the quick change conversion kits (about $40.00 a piece) or is that just to speed things up between cartridges?
Can I use all my RCBS dies I already own?
And lastly what is it that the 550 does not feature that stands out, that the 650 does feature?
Then there's all the extra goodies you can get, low primer warning, low powder warning, ect. How much of this stuff do you need, to be reloading at least five calibers with it? Thanks for the explination because I haven't really been pointed in the right direction from the dillon precision web-site.
Thanks for all the help, this choice is driving me crazy! I've been thinking it over for about two weeks now.
R/
Dave
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
First when you buy a new press does it come set up for one caliber already?
Second, do you need to buy the quick change conversion kits (about $40.00 a piece) or is that just to speed things up between cartridges?
Can I use all my RCBS dies I already own?
And lastly what is it that the 550 does not feature that stands out, that the 650 does feature?
Then there's all the extra goodies you can get, low primer warning, low powder warning, ect. How much of this stuff do you need, to be reloading at least five calibers with it? Thanks for the explination because I haven't really been pointed in the right direction from the dillon precision web-site.
Thanks for all the help, this choice is driving me crazy! I've been thinking it over for about two weeks now.
R/
Dave
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
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IIRC, it comes set up with one caliber. You do NOT need to buy a a separate quick change kit. The quick change kits just allow you to keep your dies set in a removeable toolhead so you can change calibers in a couple minutes. If you just stick with the one toolhead that comes with your 550 or 650, everytime you change calibers you'll have to unscrew the old dies, screw in and adjust the new ones, and adjust your powder measure, etc.
With the 550 and 650, you can use your RCBS dies. The powder/expanding die is proprietary (with different inserts for different calibers), but the resizing, seating and crimping dies work fine.
The big difference between the 650 and 550 is that the 650 is self indexing. Every time you pump the handle, the shell plate rotates. On the 550, you have to manually rotate the shell plate. Some people prefer to manually index the shell plate.
IIRC, the low primer warning is standard. The low powder warning is optional. Given that the powder measure is clear, I don't think you need the low powder measure. You don't really need much in the way of accessories other than what's included.
So far, we've had a couple Dillon Square Deals and a 650. All have been great. The Dillon folks have also been great with their service! I will no longer even consider another brand.
quote:Originally posted by Dave W.
I'm looking into picking up a new progressive press, either a RCBS Pro-2000, or a dillon 550, or perhaps a 650. I'm pretty well convinced that the dillons would end up costing alot more in the long run. I would like to be reloading probabably about a dozen calibers, some more than others. Mostly .223, 38/.357, .40 S&W, .44Mag, .308, 300WM, ect.
First when you buy a new press does it come set up for one caliber already?
Second, do you need to buy the quick change conversion kits (about $40.00 a piece) or is that just to speed things up between cartridges?
Can I use all my RCBS dies I already own?
And lastly what is it that the 550 does not feature that stands out, that the 650 does feature?
Then there's all the extra goodies you can get, low primer warning, low powder warning, ect. How much of this stuff do you need, to be reloading at least five calibers with it? Thanks for the explination because I haven't really been pointed in the right direction from the dillon precision web-site.
Thanks for all the help, this choice is driving me crazy! I've been thinking it over for about two weeks now.
R/
Dave
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller0 -
mpolans has said it all. I have used the 550 for yrs, and wandered how I ever got along without it. I only load two calibers. 223 and 45 acp. It's very good and gives me more time to shoot. 0 -
I have had a 550 for about 8 years now. My sister in law used to drop off her empty 9 mm for me to load 500 at a time.With my single stage this would take awhile to reload for her. But with the 550 I could tumble them one evening and reload them the next evening. I once timed myself and did 500 9 mm in one hour.Leaves a lot more time to be shooting.
I started off loading 9mm,38,357,and 45 acp using my RCBS dies. The only extras I picked up at first were the extra toolheads,powder dies and extra primer pickup tubes.This way each set of dies was monted and adjusted.I have since replaced some of the RCBS dies with Dillon dies and have picked up an additional powder measure.
As mpolans has stated their customer service is great. I have broken two parts one of which was my fault and they replaced them at no cost.
I believe if you go the Dillon way you will be pleased. Additional items can be added as your pocketbook allows.0 -
Dave,
First off, if you look diligently, you will be able to find some folks who will sell you new Dillon parts for a slight discount to MSRP (typically 10%). Second, consider buying a used press on line. Warranty is the same and often you will get some of the bells & whistles for virtually nothing.
I picked up extra tool heads for the simple reason that the time spent to adjust dies upon changing calibers when using a progressive seems to be multiplied. This may simply be because I'm a klutz. [?][:I][:o)] Once I have the tooling adjusted for the cartridge and bullet of choice, I am loath to lose the settings, though. The heads only ran me about $10 each and the powder measure mount / belling operation mounting dies about $5 each - I consider that a good deal versus the time I would spend re-adjusting tools each time I change calibers, with a cumulative return on investment, especially. I don't know what else the quick change kits involve, but this is all I need.
Now, I have a slightly different take on the use of the Dillon than many. Even with it, you still need to lube rifle brass, especially BN designs. Which, for me, largely removes the advantages of the auto case feed; you still gotta lube, ya still gotta clean the crap off, and call me old fashioned, but I like to clean the brass *after* decapping, so by sizing rifle brass separately from the rest of the process I can do both cleaning jobs at once. I still usually load my rifle ammo on my trusty Rockchucker - but I don't shoot a lot of rifle, either.
The one design flaw I would criticize with the 650 is the hassle of changing primer sizes. You need to dismantle the bloody thing quite a ways and the index return spring requires three very delicate hands and a subtle touch to replace - not easy for a dude with only two and an advanced case of the clumsies. I've discovered an extensive vocabulary of gutter language helps ease the frustration some, but not much. I've also had to replace three of those damn springs - one broke, one went flying when I was trying to re-mount it and the third I don't recall for sure, but it was one of the two previous causes. I've found a button hook (talk about a new application of old "technology!") and a quality pair of thin nosed jeweler's pliers speed the process along, though.
Otherwise, I would heartily second mpolans' comments. You will save at least 75% of the time you spend on loading - for comparable amounts of ammo, at least. The real time savings comes with larger amounts of ammo. I have things set up so I don't load less than 1000 handgun cartridges in a given caliber, and typically 2000 or more. If I'm doing load development or small runs, back to the Rockchucker.
Oh, "costing a lot more in the long run" - depends on the value you put on your time. I enjoy reloading - incredibly satisfying - but shooting what you load is even better! And for sure the Dillons give you far more time at the range or in the field for a given number of rounds. Once you move past the initial outlay for the press and essential goodies (not many, as the kit contains the necessities), the costs are not really much of an issue. The Dillon dies are designed for use with their equipment and as such are more convenient, but the only time I've bought any have been when I needed to add new tools. The RCBS, Redding, and Lyman dies I already had work just fine. You can always add goodies you want . . . need is a separate issue, just as it is with firearms! [:D][:D][:D]
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain) ". . . And liberals." (me)0 -
I really apprciate all the well thought out answers, thanks fella's guess I'll be getting a dillon 550. A guy I work with has one and invited me over to use his to try it out, so after he runs me through it I'll be buying one, thanks again.
R/
Dave
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller0 -
Dillon 550, more versatile than the 650. Great press, been reloading 223, 308, 45-70, all the handgun calibers, for years with never a problem. Get the extra toolheads, once you set your dies, they stay set...it would be dumb to unscrew all your dies every time you want to load another caliber!
Chris8161
Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof!0 -
I have a Dillon 550b. I have complete quick change kits (including powder dispenser) for my handgun calibers, plus the 45/70. For my other rifle cartridges, I have the dies in seperate toolheads and use one powder dispenser. LOVE IT!!
I got a good deal on a new in box 650 with a lot of goodies. I thought I was in hog heaven. After studying the 650 operation videotape and the manual, I kept the accessories that fit my 550 and sold the rest on the auction sites. I decided I liked my 550 better.
If you are ever in the Phoenix area, pay a visit to Dillon's headquarters and their store. (bring your wallet, it's harder to resist the stuff in person than it is from a catalog).They have the different presses set up so you can try them.
As a bonus, all the people I met there are reloaders and very knowledgable, as well as very friendly.
JUST MY OPINION.
It ain't what you shoot, it's what you hit.0 -
PS: When you order your Dillon get the spare parts kit and the maintainence kit, plus a couple extra nylon bushings for the powder bars. I have only worn out one, on my 44 mag set-up after about 25,000 rounds, but I have lost a couple. They are very small, and I find them very easy to drop and vanish. LOL
It ain't what you shoot, it's what you hit.0 -
I cannot compare the 550 and 650, having used only the latter, but I do disagree with the spare parts kit. Lost a piece? Call Dillon, it is replaced @ N/C. OK, so you are (or I am - this has never been contested!) a clumsy SOB - they *still* will replace it ASAP. So why bother to buy the spare parts unless you plan on loading to a deadline? Seriously, if all American makers had customer service at this level, the manufacturing jobs would still be here.
Dave, the Dillon will cost you more up front, but unless they go down the tubes so replacement parts are no longer available, you will *NEVER* regret buying their press. I believe this so strongly, I promise to buy it if you don't like it. I can use a 550 to go with my 650, anyway. [:D]
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain) ". . . And liberals." (me)0 -
Tool heads are $40 now?
The last time I bought any they were like $8-$10 as were the stands. Then your dies, another $15 and a calibur kit for $10 or so ... then if you wanted to put a powder drop on it another $50 ... for pistol rounds I went cheap and use the Lee auto-powder drop, it works perfect.
At first I just bought 1-2 items at a time from the dealer when I went to a show ... made a good excuse to go to the show anyway!.If you really want to do something, you'll find a way ...
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... If you don't, you'll find any excuse.0 -
I have a 550, great machine, love it.
Jason
Proud NRA member
"The constitutions of most of our states assert that all power is inherent in the people; that...it is there right and duty to be at all times armed."
Thomas Jefferson 18240 -
Another vote for the Dillon 550.
I have had one for 5 years.
I use Lee pistol dies, including a Lee taper crimp die and a Lee powder through the expander die hooked up to the Dillon powder measure. Works fine.
When I first got the Dillon I had a bad primer pickup that wouldn't work. I made a call to Dillon and in less than a week had the new part. No hassle. It has loaded every round without a problem.
I don't think they cost much money when you consider the quality and service.
Regards,
Heavyiron[8D]0
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