win 1886 45-90 ??
I was checking out some guns
to put up for sale and it looks like
its mark 45-90,but i have 2 boxs of
45-70 govn that i got with gun and
if i rememder right he said he was
shooting these shells.but 20 years ago
is a long time.Can you use 45-70 in a 45-90???
s.n is 593xx no blueing left on gun, value????
DON
to put up for sale and it looks like
its mark 45-90,but i have 2 boxs of
45-70 govn that i got with gun and
if i rememder right he said he was
shooting these shells.but 20 years ago
is a long time.Can you use 45-70 in a 45-90???
s.n is 593xx no blueing left on gun, value????
DON
0
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The primary difference between the 45-70 and the 45-90 is the powder charge, and not the COL, as I recall. I would wait for more answeres from people that are more sure of their facts than me, but I would say that it would be fine. When you get up into the 45-110 etc., then you have a COL issue.
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
The 45-90 case is, I believe, slightly longer than the 45/70 but the outside dimension is the same. It was, and is perfectly acceptable to shoot 45/70 in a 45/90 chamber....no different than a 38 in a 357.Can't help ya on the current value.
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
They headspace on the rim..0 -
thanks
45-70 shells were made in 1953
safe to use in this 1891 gun???
thanks again
DON0 -
I would. I've shot many rounds through an 86 with factory ammo. Factory ammo is notoriously underpowered just because of the age of the guns chambered for it. This assumes however that the rifle is in good shootable condition. To be safe, have a good gunsmith check it out.
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
One additional thought....you might want to pick up more current ammo since the 1953 ammo might be of interest to a collector.Just buy a standard loading and not anything marked as a High Power load for use in modern guns only.0 -
Whoa!! Verifiable antique you have there...good for you! There are a few guys out there (on the forum, I should say) like OnlyWinchesters and Bert who will havwe a concrete answere for you, but from the sounds of it with that much blue gone, it would be valued more as a shooter or display piece than a collector. Please don't take that to mean it is valueless, as it may still be worth as much as a thousand dollars due to its vintage and excellent mechanicals.
Due to the vintage of the 45-70 loads, I would hazard a guess that they are safe for your 1886 since loads of that vintage were generally made with the 1873 Trapdoor in mind. Were it not for the fact that your gun may not have been made with smokeless powder in mind, I would say go for it. As it is, I would try to find someone (if you don't do it yourself) who will load rounds for you that are on the bottom end of the power scale!
How does the chamber look? Is there a scorch ring a little short of the step in the chamber walls? If so, I would think that you DO have a 45-90 and some 45-70 was put through it over the years. Good luck, and I hope Bert and the guys see your posting!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
Hello toold,
As Hangfire mentioned, the 45-70 and 45-90 W.C.F. are dimensionally identical except for the case length (2.55" versus 2.88").
There are several things to be concerned about or to be considered when shooting 45-70 ammo in a 45-90 W.C.F. though...
(1) The factory bullet weight for the 45-90 was/is 300 grains, and consequently, the rifling twist rate was cut accordingly. If you use the heavier 405 grain (or heavier) 45-70 loads, you may not get optimum accuracy.
(2) Your particular rifle was made specifically for blackpowder and cast lead bullets. You can shoot moderate smokeless loads (and most currently loaded 45-70 factory ammo is quite moderate), but do NOT shoot jacketed bullets through that old bore. The steel alloy used in those old Winnies is simply not hard enough to hold up to modern jacketed bullets.
As for the value of your old Winnie, I really need to see several decent pictures of it to adequately evaluate the condition. That said, ANY factory original Antique Model 1886 that is 100% whole, and shootable is worth a minimum of $1500. One in 45-90 W.C.F. is worth a fair bit more, as it is the second most desirable caliber/cartridge chambering (behind the 50-110 EX).
Finally, I seriously doubt that 45-70 ammo made in the 1950s is collectable, especially if it is an opened partial box.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Hello Bert,
You gave Toold the overall cartridge length rather then the case length. The case length of the .45-70 is 2.1 inches and for the .45-90 it is 2.4 inches. However you are correct in that the .45-70 cartridge can be safely fired in a .45-90 rifle as I also have done it many times.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Iroquois Scout
Hello Bert,
You gave Toold the overall cartridge length rather then the case length. The case length of the .45-70 is 2.1 inches and for the .45-90 it is 2.4 inches. However you are correct in that the .45-70 cartridge can be safely fired in a .45-90 rifle as I also have done it many times.
Thanks for the correction, and right you are... I looked in my reloading notes and without thinking, I misquoted and listed the cartridge OAL[:I] (which in a lever-action is important info[:)]).
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Scout... I was the one that said it was safe to fire in the 45/90.Please do not give Bert any credit where it is not due,he should earn any accolades on his own!!!!!![8D][8D][8D][8D][I'm glad to see you posting!]
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob0 -
Hello Hangfire,
I guess we can chalk that one up to a senior moment!!
Back after an off shore job that lasted a little over nine months and glad to be home.0 -
Welcome back!!!.....please do not stop posting. I have learned much from your replies long before I started posting.Thanks!!!!
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
BTW- Bert and I are friends, I was just giving him a shot[8D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Hangfire
BTW- Bert and I are friends, I was just giving him a shot[8D]
Not any more we ain't[}:)][:D]
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
I had a 45-90 deluxe '86 that I shot US Govt blue label 45-70 ammo in. I don't recall whether the bullets were 405, 450 or 500 grains.
It outshot my three friends' Trapdoor Springfields. The Trapdoors had longer barrels and were in excellent condition.
Good trapdoors were very cheap then and so were the Govt black powder cartridges.
We exchanged rifles to prove the point beyond a doubt.
It is interesting because the '86 rifling pitch was cut for a much lighter 300 grain bullet.
One of my regrets was in unloading that rifle + other guns in a swap for an SAA in about 1962.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
quote:Originally posted by Hangfire
BTW- Bert and I are friends, I was just giving him a shot[8D]
Not any more we ain't[}:)][:D]
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
[8D]
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob0 -
quote:Originally posted by v35
I had a 45-90 deluxe '86 that I shot US Govt blue label 45-70 ammo in. I don't recall whether the bullets were 405, 450 or 500 grains.
It outshot my three friends' Trapdoor Springfields. The Trapdoors had longer barrels and were in excellent condition.
Good trapdoors were very cheap then and so were the Govt black powder cartridges.
We exchanged rifles to prove the point beyond a doubt.
It is interesting because the '86 rifling pitch was cut for a much lighter 300 grain bullet.
One of my regrets was in unloading that rifle + other guns in a swap for an SAA in about 1962.
Once in awhile you get a good one, and it will shoot almost anything[^]. My experience however, is that the 405 grain shoots real good, but that the 500 grain load won't stablize properly, and it keyholes the target at 100 yards.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Sheesh, nobody waited for the ammo guy to chime in! [;)]
I would add my "welcome home" to others for I.S. - it's been too long and I always enjoy your truly expert input!
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain) ". . . And liberals." (me)0 -
thanks again.
You guys are great.
DON.
p.s. My notes say i paid $100 for it 22
years ago .
DON0 -
quote:Originally posted by toold
thanks again.
You guys are great.
DON.
p.s. My notes say i paid $100 for it 22
years ago .
DON
Hello Don... You can safely assume that the old girl is worth just "a wee bit" more than that today[:)]
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0
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