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Reloading help

john carr
Last spring I loaded 50 rounds of .44 Magnum ammo. Brass was new unprimed Federal cases, bullets were Keith-Ideal #429421, moulded, lubed and sized by myself. Before I went out shooting a couple weeks ago I checked all rounds, making sure they went in and came out of my Ruger Bisley without dificulty. All but one fit perfectly. One would only chamber so far, leaving a gap of 1/8" between the head of the cartridge and the cylinder. I put this aside and shot up most of the others.

Last night I started to reload. After ten rounds I checked these again with the cylinder of the Ruger. None would chamber fully. The same 1/8" gap. I used a micrometer and checked the offending cartridge with one which fit perfectly; the offending cartridge was several thousandths larger in the front 1/4" than the good cartridge. Does anyone have an idea why this would occur? I suspect the expander plug but not positive. The dies are RCBS which I have used many times. The box says ".44 Spec, and .44 Mag but the seating die says only .44 Special. I can run the resizing die over the front 1/4" of the cartridge and it chambers perfectly, but I would like to get to the bottom of the problem. Any ideas?
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Comments

13 comments

Date Votes
  • john carr
    does anybody out there have data for reloading .357 SIG? i would prefer to use hodgdon HP-38, as i already have 2.9 metric tons of it. all i can find is using h-6 and universal powder. any help at all?

    SGT USMC

    The greatest happiness is to see your enemy scattered before you, to see his village in ashes, and to gather to your bed his wives and daughters.-Genghis Khan 1226
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  • dg101win
    Maybe a over length case which in turn puts too much crimp on the loaded round.This could cause the case mouth to bulge out a bit.
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  • perry shooter
    Hello in reloading straight walled pistol cases there are a number of steps to get a good reloaded cartridge The first die pushes out the spent primer and sizes down the out side of the case. The next step for the case is to slightly bell the mouth after the new primer is put in along with correct powder charge YOU SEAT THE NEW BULLET TO CORRECT OAL Then your seating die has to close the bell on mouth of case. In the first step make sure your case goes all the way into the die . The die should just KISS the shell holder . In the 3th step Make sure the outside of the die is tuned into the press far enough to turn in the bell you created in step 2 The center of the seating die is adjustable by turning die body in and seating plug out you will maintain the same OAL but put in more CRIMP. Hope this helps. Karl
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  • Throckmorton
    I think Perry Shooter has the idea....
    raise the ram on the press and be sure the size die just kisses the shell plate/shell holder,and make sure the die is tight and has not worked loose from it's mounting positon.

    Throckmortons' the alias,cas is the game.
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  • king999
    I agree with all above, but there are twpo highly likely problems. First, your bullets MAY be a bit oversize. IF they are uniformly sized but oversized, then ALL should give problems. Since only some were too snug, the likelihood of this is reduced, but possible. The more likely difficulty is that the crimp was too severe! That would be because you turned the crimp down too tight, OR because the cases were not uniform in length. If this were true then the shorter cases would work correctly, but the longer ones would have excess crimp. The "excess crimp" scenario is somewhat most likely and would be confirmed by the fact that resizing the assembled round eliminated the problem. In 44 Mag you MUST have a good, tight crimp, but in order to achieve this uniformly, the cases must be uniformly trimmed.
    Morty
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  • john carr
    Thanks for the suggestions. I think there may have been a possibility that I didn't size properly, so went back and set the resizing die just touching the shell holder. Then completely reset the seating die by putting a "good" cartridge in the shell holder and backing out the seating screw, screwing the die down till the crimping "collar"? just touched, turned it down one more full revolution, turned the seating screw down till just touched. Removed the "good" round, put an empty case thru the hoops and seated the bullet. Still a gap of 1/8" from seating in the cylinder. I don't think I can consider O.A.L. as these are new unprimed brass. I'm going to proceed on the assumption that it is "overcrimping" and work some more tonite and will let you all know. Thanks again.
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  • perry shooter
    Hello again This is why most people like a taper crimp die you can keep from buldgeing case even if the cases vary in OAL this works well on 45acp etc but on 44mag you might have problem with bullets moveing forward in the case during recoil and locking up the cylinder. "NOT GOOD" there should be a "CRIMP" groove in your bullet. This will let the case mouth go smaller without a buldge Karl
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  • Tailgunner1954
    John
    Size a fired case. Try to seat it into the pistol. If it still stops short, you need to look at the mouth of your sizing die. There is a lead in taper on them, and sometimes the taper is to large/long to size the case to the base (Dillon and Lee dies are the worst offenders).


    Whittemore
    Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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  • john carr
    Tailgunner, I found an empty case (my last one) and sized it. It dropped in and out of the chamber so the sizer doesn't seem to be at blame. Perry Shooter, the bullet I'm loading does have a good crimping groove and the last one I loaded after resetting the seating die gave a beautiful crimp. But the bullet still wouldn't chamber. So you guys were right I think; it is overcrimping. I'm going to reset the seating die and when the crimping collar touches the rim I'm going to do what the RCBS booklet says to do and screw it in only 1/8 turn at a time till I get the right crimp. I've been loading with those dies for ten years, funny how that would malfunction all by itself.
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  • heavyiron
    I think all the experts have given great advice in their evaluation of the problem.

    I don't have any great advice but will suggest, that if you have a micrometer to measure the bullet diameter also since you are moulding, lubing and sizing your own bullets. This won't fix the problem, but it may elimate a potential source the problem. I have used multi-cavity molds and have had small quantities of lead stick to the mould face. The effect of this was to make one or two of the bullets dropped from the mould slightly oversize since I do not size my bullets. But if you do as stated above, this would make an oversize bullet unlikely.

    Another method to isolate a source of the problem would be to take one of the oversize cartridges, pull the bullet (safely), use a tubing cutter to cut the case in half, and then try to chamber the half with the case head. If it fits the chamber, the problem is associated with the mouth of the case, i.e., crimp.

    Regards,

    Heavyiron[8D]
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  • john carr
    Heavy Iron, I finally got it. The problem was as you and all the others said was over crimping. I compounded the error by when readjusting the seating die I would first contact the mouth of the case with the crimping ring, then lower the shell holder and screw in the die ONE full turn. Too much. The RCBS pamphlet (when all fails read the...) that came with the dies is clear in that you take it by one eighth turns. I did this and it just took one half turn to get a nice crimp and the cartridge chambers nicely. The only thing is how did that die get out of adjustment? Thanks all for your help in isolating this problem.
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  • richbug
    there also is a solution to fixing all of those bad rounds you already have loaded. The Lee factory Crimp die is a carbide sizing die deisgned to post size loaded ammo.

    rich

    My border collie is smarter than your honor student.
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  • 1KYDSTR
    If I were to hazard a guess from what I've seen thus far?...Overcrimp. This happens to me from time to time on 357 and 45-70. Lead is a litle tricky to work with as it will often deform under the pressure of the seating movement and give a diffenrent oal, and thus a slightly different crimp profile.

    "When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
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