Value of a few guns.
I'd appreciate any help from the experts on what these guns may be worth.
These guns belonged to an uncle. My aunt is needing to down size in order to move into an assited living complex. The guns belonged to my uncles father who shot skeet and trap for Winchester during the 30's and 40's. He won many regional and State matches.
All guns are excellent to like new condition unless noted.
A Model 12, s#5414xx standard 12ga with a Cutts compensator. The trigger guard is engraved with the owners intials and last name. The original recoil pad has been replaced with a "power pack" black pad.
A Model 12, s#3541xx trap 12ga., fancy stock with a diamond ivory inlay on each side, ivory front site, 29" barrel. The trigger guard is engraved with the owners intials and last name. This gun was factory reworked several times, it's on the third barrel. It won a lot of regional and state skeet/trap championships in the 30's and 40's.
A Model 62A, s#2598xx.
A Model 61, s#580xx. This gun has a Marble peep site on the tang.
A Model 61, s#76295. This gun has a Weaver 4X scope.
A Model 92, Sporting Rifle, s#883xx, 25-20.
A Model 67, 22cal, no s# found, smooth bore, has a threaded muzzle with protective end cap.
A Model 68, no s# found. This gun has a walnut strip screwed to the left side of the stock at the action. This strip is drilled to hold extra cartriges.
A Charter Arms 12ga. double, 28" full & modified, double triggers, checkered stock and forearm, case hardening colors on frame. Barrel marked "Hunter Arms Co". Frame marked "L.C. Smith" s#1068xx. Gun has been rebuilt and looks new.
A S&W Model One, 2nd edition. s# 37424. Blued barrel with silver frame.
A S&W Model One, 3rd edition. s# 37900. Nickle with birds head grips.
I know this is a lot of guns to look at. I appreciate any and all help.
These guns belonged to an uncle. My aunt is needing to down size in order to move into an assited living complex. The guns belonged to my uncles father who shot skeet and trap for Winchester during the 30's and 40's. He won many regional and State matches.
All guns are excellent to like new condition unless noted.
A Model 12, s#5414xx standard 12ga with a Cutts compensator. The trigger guard is engraved with the owners intials and last name. The original recoil pad has been replaced with a "power pack" black pad.
A Model 12, s#3541xx trap 12ga., fancy stock with a diamond ivory inlay on each side, ivory front site, 29" barrel. The trigger guard is engraved with the owners intials and last name. This gun was factory reworked several times, it's on the third barrel. It won a lot of regional and state skeet/trap championships in the 30's and 40's.
A Model 62A, s#2598xx.
A Model 61, s#580xx. This gun has a Marble peep site on the tang.
A Model 61, s#76295. This gun has a Weaver 4X scope.
A Model 92, Sporting Rifle, s#883xx, 25-20.
A Model 67, 22cal, no s# found, smooth bore, has a threaded muzzle with protective end cap.
A Model 68, no s# found. This gun has a walnut strip screwed to the left side of the stock at the action. This strip is drilled to hold extra cartriges.
A Charter Arms 12ga. double, 28" full & modified, double triggers, checkered stock and forearm, case hardening colors on frame. Barrel marked "Hunter Arms Co". Frame marked "L.C. Smith" s#1068xx. Gun has been rebuilt and looks new.
A S&W Model One, 2nd edition. s# 37424. Blued barrel with silver frame.
A S&W Model One, 3rd edition. s# 37900. Nickle with birds head grips.
I know this is a lot of guns to look at. I appreciate any and all help.
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Originally posted by Rick S
I'd appreciate any help from the experts on what these guns may be worth.
These guns belonged to an uncle. My aunt is needing to down size in order to move into an assited living complex. The guns belonged to my uncles father who shot skeet and trap for Winchester during the 30's and 40's. He won many regional and State matches.
All guns are excellent to like new condition unless noted.
A Model 12, s#5414xx standard 12ga with a Cutts compensator. The trigger guard is engraved with the owners intials and last name. The original recoil pad has been replaced with a "power pack" black pad. Modified gun... no longer considered a "collectable", $200'ish.
A Model 12, s#3541xx trap 12ga., fancy stock with a diamond ivory inlay on each side, ivory front site, 29" barrel. The trigger guard is engraved with the owners intials and last name. This gun was factory reworked several times, it's on the third barrel. It won a lot of regional and state skeet/trap championships in the 30's and 40's. Would need to see this one to properly evaluate it.
A Model 62A, s#2598xx. The graded condition will dictate what it will bring, which could be anywhere from $200 up to $1000+ (for a near mint specimen).
A Model 61, s#580xx. This gun has a Marble peep site on the tang. Again, the graded condition will control what it is worth.
A Model 61, s#76295. This gun has a Weaver 4X scope. If non factory modified to mount the scope, it is a $200 - $250 shooter (including the scope).
A Model 92, Sporting Rifle, s#883xx, 25-20. The graded condition is very important on this one. The caliber is its only downfall.
A Model 67, 22cal, no s# found, smooth bore, has a threaded muzzle with protective end cap. If it is 100% factory original, it would mean that it is one of the earliest Model 67s, and with those features, it could be worth a sizeable chunk of pocket change. I would definitely like to see some pictures of it.
A Model 68, no s# found. This gun has a walnut strip screwed to the left side of the stock at the action. This strip is drilled to hold extra cartriges. It has been altered in an unfriendly way, and is really just a shooter now. Still, it might bring $150.
A Charter Arms 12ga. double, 28" full & modified, double triggers, checkered stock and forearm, case hardening colors on frame. Barrel marked "Hunter Arms Co". Frame marked "L.C. Smith" s#1068xx. Gun has been rebuilt and looks new. Don't know... has me a bit confused by the "Charter Arms" and "L.C. Smith" markings. Undoubtedly either Nord or laxcoach will tell you it is a "premier" gun, but don't believe them, for they would not recognize a quality shotgun if it bit them in arse[;)]
A S&W Model One, 2nd edition. s# 37424. Blued barrel with silver frame. Don't know squat about the older S&W pistols.
A S&W Model One, 3rd edition. s# 37900. Nickle with birds head grips.
I know this is a lot of guns to look at. I appreciate any and all help.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Hello Rick: This is what I can tell you about the Md 12's:
S/n 5414xx it was made in 1928, elevan years before Winchester offered the Cutts as an option. So either the original barrel was cut down and the cutts was added or the gun has had the barrel replaced. You don't say where the engraving of the owners name is located, if it's on a "Shield in the butt stock this isn't a big deal, if it's on the gun, it is. About $200-$300 if it has sandard field grade wood, (non checkered stocks)Maybe $275-$400 for parts if you part it out.
S/N 3541xx, made in 1924,Black diamond Traps are rare, but since it's been "reworked" it may not be worth as much. The original barrel came with either a Solid Rib or "2 pin Vent Rib" The barrel length is from the face of the breech bolt to the end of the muzzle. It should be 28, 30 or 32 inches. If you measure from the end of the muzzle to were both half meet, that should be about 29 inches, add an in for the section inside the receiver. The barrel should be stamped with Nickel Steel, if it says Winchester Proof Steel, the barrel was replaced during one of the reworks. I will need the info on this before a value can be estimated. I can tell you this a set of Black Diamond stocks can go for $400-$800. A solid rib barrel is $200-$350.
A 2 pin Vent rib barrel $300-$450. So answer the questions, I can provide more info. Regards Dave0 -
The smith pistols, all I can tell you is a couple came up for sale here , and they were excellant, a mdl 1 by Rollins White, for Smith goes for around 200 to 400, this is the earliest one, the mdl 2 and 3 go for around 200 to 250.00
Only, if you find a collector that needs one to complete a collection, you might get a bit higher prices..0 -
Only Winchester, to answer a couple of your questions.
You don't say where the engraving of the owners name is located, if it's on a "Shield in the butt stock this isn't a big deal, if it's on the gun, it is.
Both Model 12 guns have the original owner's name, X.X. XXXX, engraved on the bottom of the trigger guard.
The trap model has the vent rib. The barrel length would be 30". The original measurement of 29" was taken from "end of the muzzle to were both half meet".
Notes left to my aunt by my uncle about the trap gun state:
"Model 12 29" bbl., vent rib, trap gun, black & white diamond inlay to both sides of fancy stock, beaver forearm 12ga. X.X. XXXX on trigger guard. Serial# 354187, condition like new, red ivory sight on front."
I'm not in a positon to review the barrel markings for Nickel versus proof steel. I hope to do that by the end of the week.0 -
Rick, I'd be very cautious of values of Winchesters given by a previous poster---he's obsessed with Winchesters in general and one particular model of doublegun that is obviously is a copy of a Fox Sterlingworth (and a very poor one at that). Having said that, I'm confused as well about the Charter Arms. Where are the "Charter Arms" markings on the gun? Is it a numbers-matching gun? 0 -
Coach, My mistake on the "Charter Arms". I have some hand written notes on these guns and a typed sheet that was "cut off" by the copier. All I had was "..ter Arms". It should be Hunter Arms as stated on the barrel.
The notes say: "...ter Arms Co. 12ga. double, 28" bbl full & mod., double triggers,...chered stock & forearm, case hardening colors on frame, bbl. marked ARMOR STL..... says "Hunter Arms Co., and frame says "L.C.Smith" 106844..... gun, but has been rebuilt & looks like new."0 -
In researching these guns in a catalog, I see that pre-war and post-war prices are significantly different on the M-61's and the M-62A.
A Model 62A s#259887, the cat. says it was manuf. in 1948. I assume that is post war?
A Model 61 s#58034, the cat., says it was manuf. in 1942. I assume that is pre-war?
A Model 61 s#76295, the cat., says it was manufactured in 1947. I assume that is post war?
I think you can count the groves in the forearm slide and determine pre or post war manufacture. Will someone explain the number of grooves each model, 61 and 62A, should have to be pre-war or post war.
Thanks again for all your help.0 -
Originally posted by Rick S
In researching these guns in a catalog, I see that pre-war and post-war prices are significantly different on the M-61's and the M-62A.
A Model 62A s#259887, the cat. says it was manuf. in 1948. I assume that is post war? Yes. There is a small premium for pre-war specimens, but the most important factor in the value, is the condition. Also keep in mind that none of the price/value guides are very accurate when trying to assess market values to collectable Winchesters... the actual collector market changes much too rapidly for any published document to keep up.
A Model 61 s#58034, the cat., says it was manuf. in 1942. I assume that is pre-war? It could be, or it may not be. The difference is determined by the type/size of the slide handle. If it is small (like the Models 90 & 06), it is a pre-war rifle. If it has the large type slide handle... post-war production. The premium that exists for the Model 61s, are those early pre-war specimens with an octagon barrel, or one of them with a smooth bore (Rutledge bore)
A Model 61 s#76295, the cat., says it was manufactured in 1947. I assume that is post war? Yes.
I think you can count the groves in the forearm slide and determine pre or post war manufacture. Will someone explain the number of grooves each model, 61 and 62A, should have to be pre-war or post war. That is basically true, but it is much easier to simply look at the size of the slide handle. As I mentioned before, the pre-war Models 61 and 62 will have the same size slide handle as the Model 90 & late 06s.
Thanks again for all your help. You are quite welcome.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
not an expert reply but around these parts, a model 62 that is in nice condition but has been shot usually goes in the mid $400 range , your model 92 in 25-20 would have to be really nice to get $600 for it , seen a guy pay $500 for a lc smith(hunter arms ) in 16 ga. that had been redone but it was very nice rework and he was into 16 gauges .. 0 -
Rick, I should have asked this question before---- exactly what is stamped on the right barrel and left barrel on the Elsie? 0 -
Rick: The engraving on the trigger guard wont really help, unless you can show this gun was owned and used by "XXXX" National Champion in the 20s or 30s. So if you can provide anything about the owner with the gun it could help, any picture showing the gun with the person after winning a match, newspaper clippings, written articles etc. A good example would be the special Md 12s that Winchester built for Roy Rogers, Robert Taylor, or even Clark Gables, these guns have more value because of who owned them.
If you have any records of the Winchester Factory doing any work to the Black Diamond Md 12 you will need those to get top dollar too. Generally speaking any Black Diamond thats been reblued doesn't have the value as an original gun. If this gun was "refurbished" by the factory, look for the records. This gun is about 80 years old and was used in the 20s and 30s, it shouldn't be "LIKE NRW" so any documentation will be extremely useful. Regards Dave0
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