accuracy problem
Folks, I shoot a 1964 458 Magnum Remington Mod. 70 Safari grade from their custom shop. It was shortened by them to 20". I have only shot handloads from it since getting it. I have loaded max. loads of 4198, light loads of 4198. and very light loads of 2400. All with 500 gr. jacketed bullets. The gun shoots consistantly 6" right at 50 yds., even with the iron sights moved as far over as possible to correct for this. I'm wondering, is this short barrel not able to stabilize bullets this heavy? Am I resigned to shooting only 300 gr. cast or 45-70 type jacketed bullets? Any ideas, please. I don't shoot factory loads due to their expense, and don't see why it should matter. I can scope this gun as long as I stick to lighter loads, if I have to. Is that the only answer? Thanks for the help! Barry L.
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I'm a little confused - you say a 1964 REMINGTON Mod 70 - is it a Remington or Winchester?
Shouldn't matter, though. If you're shooting iron sights and consistently hit 6" right at 50 yds no matter what the rear sight windage is adjusted to, I'd have to guess you're not getting the proper sight picture and maybe even holding the rifle wrong. With all the adjustment used, the Point of Impact (POI) surely would have shifted somewhere. Didn't say whether this is from a bench (OUCH!) or offhand. There will be a difference between the two methods.
Best advice is to let someone else shoot the monster (if you can find a gullible sort!) and see if they get the same result.
Keep off the Ridgeline0 -
I will elaborate. It is an Early REMINGTON Mod. 70. The factory told me when it was built. They said the Mod. 70 started in 1962, so there probably aren't many out there from 1964 in 458. It was scoped with a very early model Redfield 2 3/4 fixed, but, as you indicated, when shot off a bench, not only kicked me like a mule, but rose up and put a crescent shaped dent in my forehead from the scope. Scoped or not, it's not a bench rest rifle. I have a target sent to me by the previous owner, using cast 300 gr. bullets, where he had 4 shots at 100 yds in a 2" group. I have let other brave folks shoot this beast, and we all hit close to the same spot. That is what makes me think that the bullet weight might be part of the problem. I'm just hoping it's not a mechanical problem. I was told the gun was rarely shot, and believe that, as the bore appears perfect. Thanks for the replies. Barry 0 -
I see now why I'm confusing folks. I shoot a Win. Model 70 and this Rem. Model 700. Pardon me for my mistakenly combining the 2. This gun is DEFINATELY a REMINGTON, MODEL 700. Sorry for my temporary senility! Barry 0 -
You might want to determine the rate of twist, then go up or down on bullet weights to improve the accuracy.
John
The original point and click interface was made by Smith & Wesson0 -
1) Lock the rifle into a vice, and do a bore site/iron sight alignment check (do the same with the scope in place if your going to use it).
2) It's possiable that your experancing torque during the barrel time, that's shoving the rifle off to one side (possiable stock fit issue)
3) You said accuracy problem, which is group size. Your discribing a POA/POI issue. Similar but different problems
4) When shooting "boomers" from a bench, keep your spine verticle. If that means a tall stack of bags or kneeling next to the bench, than so be it.
5) When shooting "boomers" from ANY position, push forward with your offhand. This will help spread the recoil across your entire chest instead of concintrating it into one shoulder.
6) You may need to contact a compatent gunsmith, one that's familier with working on "boomers".
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.0 -
tailgunner and salvage-I think you both have valid points. One, I'm afraid I will just need to stick to lighter bullets, as I have a target showing me that this is an accurate rifle with lighter bullets. Also, I do feel torque is involved, as, when you shoot this gun, offhand or benched, it jumps up and to the side violently. I always wanted, as a kid, to experience just what these guns were like, having read about the massive game dropped by them. Now that I know what this cartridge will do, I'm probably going to start downloading until I find a bullet, powder combo this gun likes, and stick with it, until some hotshot comes around that has never seen a cartridge he couldn't tame, and then slip in a Max load, and enjoy the results. Thanks to everyone, Barry 0 -
[:D] That's the main reason I have a 416 Rigby [:D]
The WM isn't all that bad, you can always have it reamed out to the 458Lott (and still be able to fire 458WM rounds through it), or go real crazy and ream it out to the wildcat 458 Huble Express cartridge(the HE case is as long as a complete WM cartridge). Now that would be painfull.
BTW, the "little" one on the left is the 458HE, (the others are 700HE, his 4bore made from the 20mm vulcan case and 1190HE cartridges by Ed Huble)
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.0 -
Mr. Barry,
In handloading, bullet weight is only one of many variables. You mention loading with 4198 & 2400. These two powders are on the fast burning end of the scale. Try loads with 4064 to compare felt recoil & amount of torque/barrel movement.
With the fast powder, you may be getting a spike/rapid pressure rise on ignition. Often slower burning powders will give a smoother pressure level throughout the barrel length, resulting in tamer recoil with little or no velocity loss.
As pointed out by Tailgunner, a bullet problem would result in wide groups & keyholing. Recently a friend was having a similar problem as you are experiencing. We talked through several loads & he made several test runs to the range. It turned out his front sling swivel was barrel mounted & he was using the sling to hold/steady the rifle. The harder he tried to hold the rifle, the farther sideways his group went.
As a parting thought, my uncle Lou was my mentor in all things GUN. He always taught me shot placement was 98% & magnum power was only 2%. When one day he showed me his latest addition, a 458 Win., I was dismayed. "What do you need that for?" I asked.
"First, need has nothing to do with it" he said. "I have several requests each year by people wanting to borrow a hunting rifle. This the first LOANER I have ever owned" was his answer.
Good luck taming the beast, & if all else fails, you now own a loaner!
"all I really need to know I learned in kindergarten" Robert Fulghum
anyone who says "nobody needs a full auto" has never been in front of a brown bear charge0 -
Your Uncle Lou was a pretty smart feller! [:D]
Keep off the Ridgeline0
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