Questions Re: 45/70
I presently own a modern 1895 Marlin Guide Rifle in 45/70 cal.
I just purchased (it hasn't arrived as yet) a 45/70 1873 Trapdoor Sringfield Rifle (Serial# 100XXX - not a repro) supposedly in excellent condition.
The seller states that he has fired factory loaded 305gr jacketed and 405gr lead cartridges in this rifle and that it shoots great.The bore and outside surface of the rifle is completely free of pitting and rust. Some bluing remains but much of the exterior is changing to a patina finish.
Since I am not a collector but rather a shooter - I have the following questions:
Can factory loaded smokeless powder cartridges be safely fired in an 1873 Trapdoor Springfield - based on the assumption and a gunsmith's inspection that the rifle is in excellent mechanical condition? I remember reading somewhere that Factory 45/70 cartridges are purposely made with low pressure loads so they can safely be fired in the Trapdors.Is this true??
I've killed two (150 lb. each approx) wild boar with my Marlin Guide Rifle loaded with the 305 jacketed factory loaded rounds and they really did the job!
Secondly - I reload all my rifle and handgun ammunition, using a Lee Hand Press and Lee Dies. Never had a problem with any caliber until I tried to reload 45/70's. The brass is so thin that it keeps collapsing when I attempt to seat the bullet.Is there anyway to solve this frustrating problem????
Any additional info or recommendations you may have concerning the Springfield Trapdoor Rifles or any reference books you might recommend
would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks a lot,
John
Vietnam - All Gave Some -Some Gave All
Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you wish peace, prepare for war
I just purchased (it hasn't arrived as yet) a 45/70 1873 Trapdoor Sringfield Rifle (Serial# 100XXX - not a repro) supposedly in excellent condition.
The seller states that he has fired factory loaded 305gr jacketed and 405gr lead cartridges in this rifle and that it shoots great.The bore and outside surface of the rifle is completely free of pitting and rust. Some bluing remains but much of the exterior is changing to a patina finish.
Since I am not a collector but rather a shooter - I have the following questions:
Can factory loaded smokeless powder cartridges be safely fired in an 1873 Trapdoor Springfield - based on the assumption and a gunsmith's inspection that the rifle is in excellent mechanical condition? I remember reading somewhere that Factory 45/70 cartridges are purposely made with low pressure loads so they can safely be fired in the Trapdors.Is this true??
I've killed two (150 lb. each approx) wild boar with my Marlin Guide Rifle loaded with the 305 jacketed factory loaded rounds and they really did the job!
Secondly - I reload all my rifle and handgun ammunition, using a Lee Hand Press and Lee Dies. Never had a problem with any caliber until I tried to reload 45/70's. The brass is so thin that it keeps collapsing when I attempt to seat the bullet.Is there anyway to solve this frustrating problem????
Any additional info or recommendations you may have concerning the Springfield Trapdoor Rifles or any reference books you might recommend
would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks a lot,
John
Vietnam - All Gave Some -Some Gave All
Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you wish peace, prepare for war
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'most' factory .45/70 ammo is loaded to 'trap door' pressures but jacketed bullets are hard on the soft steel barrels and cast bullets should be used if you are going to shoot it any amount. as for reloading, make sure you a. flare the cases before bullet seatin, b. do not 'over size' the brass, c. over crimp the case. 0 -
Perfect advice! Remeber also that if you are using black poeder, "air is the enemy"! You will want to use whatever powder you choose so that it nearly completely fills the void in the cartridge case. When too much air is present, pressures become very unpredictable and could well create a less than desireable condition in the old smoke poles.
I too have a GG and several older guns such as Trapdoors and a Sharps rifle. I always make sure that there is a unique bullet that I use in the older guns to insure I don't inadvertantly substitute the handloads for the GG, which are, I can assure you, HUGELY more potent thanthe single shot loads!
In my part time job as range boss at the local range, I saw 4 trapdoors yesterday, and hadto inform 2 of the people that using Hornady Custom or Buffalo brand jacketed bullets was going to be strickly verboten at our establishment; the thought of that Trapdoor impaled in the side of someones head was not going to make for a good trip to the range!
Common sense has to prevail here. The old Trapdoors were intended to handle pressures in the mid 20,000 PSI while the modern single shot or lever action loads are pushing 40 to 50,000 PSI. Additionally, as mentioned, the steel used in these older rifles was MUCH softer than that of your Guide Gun, and jacketed bullets will shorten barrel life like you can't believe. Since you reload, I would follow Mike's advice A to Z, and then buy some 405 gr. cast lead bullets to attempt a work-up of the old military load. Have fun with that old smoke-pole!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0
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