Trying to ID a gun
Hello, all. First time poster here.
Looking to ID the gun in the pics. Is now mine, had belonged to my Dad. He was a Vietnam Vet w/exposure to AO, died in 1982. He was an avid hunter, and I have inherited his guns. Until now, they sat in my mother's closet. We recently dug them out, as my other half, Jay, and I will be going camping soon, and I want to learn to shoot again. We don't necessarily plan to shoot this one, but I want to learn more about it.
The following is either a 22 or 25, we think 25.
Believed to be made in Belgium. It says BELGIUM on it, and there is a crowned pineapple type emblem with an ELG in it.
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!
~Melinda
Looking to ID the gun in the pics. Is now mine, had belonged to my Dad. He was a Vietnam Vet w/exposure to AO, died in 1982. He was an avid hunter, and I have inherited his guns. Until now, they sat in my mother's closet. We recently dug them out, as my other half, Jay, and I will be going camping soon, and I want to learn to shoot again. We don't necessarily plan to shoot this one, but I want to learn more about it.
The following is either a 22 or 25, we think 25.
Believed to be made in Belgium. It says BELGIUM on it, and there is a crowned pineapple type emblem with an ELG in it.
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!
~Melinda
0
-
You may want to have a dealer look at it. I have seen some that the barrel was damascus steel. I would make sure as the pressure's of newer ammo can damage it. 0 -
I don't usually comment on rifles, but your photos interested me a bit.
Belgian without a doubt. Probably what we consider a guild gun. In other words not the product of any one concern. Not a high quality piece. Otherwise the maker would have proudly stamped his name.
The broken stock will negate any real interest unless repaired properly. I'm not too sure it would be worth the effort.
.25 rim fire is unavailable, though NOS is seen from time to time. These are very low-powered rounds as a rule.
Hope this has been of some small assist.
Nord0 -
Here is a sketch of the emblem/logo we were able to find:
Also, there is the number 16 in 2 spots, presumably the SN?
Barrel is octagon shaped.
We do have some 25 cal and they fit, but Jay says the size diff between 22 and 25 is so negligable that we would need to see if 22s fit before we said for sure one way or the other. I would think that would be the reason we had 25s in the house at all.
I do appreciate the input, Nord.
If it does prove to be a gun of little to no value, we may decide to play with redong the stock, for fun anyway...
We, of course, will bring it to a dealer before doing anything foolish.
Thanks, again!
Melinda0 -
Hello Melinda,
What you have is Belgian Flobert rifle. Most of them were chambered for a real short .22 caliber cartridge, but some were made in .25 caliber as well. Ammo for these is LONG ago obselete.
There is a considerable size difference between .22 and .25 caliber, and if you have .25 caliber ammo that fits in the chamber, then the rifle is most definitely not .22 caliber. I strongly advise against shooting the rifle with that old ammo though. The most common .25 caliber rimfire ammo made in the U.S. was the Stevens .25 Short and .25 Long, both of which should not be used in that old Flobert. If that old ammo is the correct Flobert ammo, it is collectable, and may be worth more than the rifle.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
BERT's made the correct call....Best....
Captain Kirk, Tech Staff0 -
That proof is indeed the Leige proof. Bert is correct that a 25 is not close to a 22.
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob0 -
Sorry to disagree with notable experts but this is not a Flobert. It has a closing breech, note in the photo that the breech block hinges down to close behing the cartridge. A Flobert does not have a closing breech. It depends on a very heavy hammer which bears the firing pin. The mass of the hammer(plus spring help) contains the pressure and recoil of the very puny cartridge it shoots. This piece could readily handle the standard cartidges of its day, mid to late 1800s. May have been a prototype design that never went anywhere. I have seen a couple of other unmarked guns of this breech design and agree they probably were made by an individual maker rather than a large manufacturer. There is collector interest in early weird design attempts at breech loading improvements. I have sold a couple of early odd pieces for serious money. This one might well be worth having a good job done on the stock so don't treat it lightly until you get more complete info. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by rhmc24
Sorry to disagree with notable experts but this is not a Flobert. It has a closing breech, note in the photo that the breech block hinges down to close behing the cartridge. A Flobert does not have a closing breech. It depends on a very heavy hammer which bears the firing pin. The mass of the hammer(plus spring help) contains the pressure and recoil of the very puny cartridge it shoots. This piece could readily handle the standard cartidges of its day, mid to late 1800s. May have been a prototype design that never went anywhere. I have seen a couple of other unmarked guns of this breech design and agree they probably were made by an individual maker rather than a large manufacturer. There is collector interest in early weird design attempts at breech loading improvements. I have sold a couple of early odd pieces for serious money. This one might well be worth having a good job done on the stock so don't treat it lightly until you get more complete info.
The original Flobert's dated to the mid 19th Century. They had a vertical swinging plate that functioned as a breech block in conjuction with the hammer that "locked" it in position at ignition.
Up until W W II, "Flobert" was used as a generic name in Europe for single shot rimfire arms. They were made in a number of calibers,i.e. 4mm, 5mm, 6mm & 9mm. My WAG is that the one in question, is a 6mm.0 -
We found another symbol on it, but not able to decipher. It appears that it is *supposed* to be an oval, with ?3 letters in it, but due to wearing, is only partially there. I don't think it is ELG again, but I could be wrong.
It is on the underside of the rifle barrel, at the end nearest the stock(?). Here is a pic trying to show the location of the mark:0 -
Hello Melinda...
The letters that you can not quite read in that oval are indeed ELG, and the rifle is as I stated earlier, a Belgian made Flobert (despite what rhmc24 thinks).
They were inexpensively made single shot rifles, and they are/were very common throughout Europe. I would highly recommend conducting a web search using the term "Flobert Rifle"... you will find several examples of them, and can see for yourself what they are actually selling for (usually less then $150).
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
quote:Originally posted by rhmc24
Sorry to disagree with notable experts but this is not a Flobert. It has a closing breech, note in the photo that the breech block hinges down to close behing the cartridge. A Flobert does not have a closing breech. It depends on a very heavy hammer which bears the firing pin. The mass of the hammer(plus spring help) contains the pressure and recoil of the very puny cartridge it shoots. This piece could readily handle the standard cartidges of its day, mid to late 1800s. May have been a prototype design that never went anywhere. I have seen a couple of other unmarked guns of this breech design and agree they probably were made by an individual maker rather than a large manufacturer. There is collector interest in early weird design attempts at breech loading improvements. I have sold a couple of early odd pieces for serious money. This one might well be worth having a good job done on the stock so don't treat it lightly until you get more complete info.
Hello rhmc24...
I did not state that it is a "Flobert", but did accurately state that it is a "Belgian Flobert". That rifle is neither rare, nor a prototype. I suggest that you conduct a web search using the term "Belgian Flobert".
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
11 comments