wildcat advice
Does anybody out there have any experience with the 6mm/.223 cartridge? I am looking to build a new target/varmint rifle and want something fairly quiet and cheap to reload. Also not a lot of recoil as I'm trying to get my wife to start shooting. This looks like a good round on paper,but I don't know anybody that has one. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
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Hello yes it has been tried however my 2cents is why not load a 243 or 6mm REM to lighter then factory loads and then as she gets used to this you can go to factory loads or try a 6MM ppc this is almost the round you are asking about and if you ever decide to sell a factory chambered gun is easier to sell and in most cases will bring more money then a wildcat. 0 -
Why not a 222? Nice and quiet, no recoil, very accurate, no special dies to order, etc. I once heard in the past that the Sierra Bullet company uses the 222 to test all their 22 cal bullets.
Men, like bullets, go farthest when they are smoothest.0 -
Mike,
The 6mm/223 or 6x45 is an excellent choice for varmint/target for both beginners and experts. Very mild, yet efficient and accurate as long as you understand the limits of this cartridge's power. I've use several versions for prairie dogs as well as 100, 200 and 300 yard targets shooting. The cartridge will perform as long as the rifle is made to the best specifications for accuracy. Depending on the twist, I've built loads around 58 grain bullets up through 87 grain bullets.
Another version is the 6mm TC/U which is the same brass but fireformed with a 40 degree shoulder. The next larger one is the 6 x 47 which is made from 222 Rem. Mag. cases. These used to be a bit difficult to find but with the advent of the 204 Ruger, the brass is once again slightly more available. Another suggestion for a similar cartridge with slightly more power is any of the versions of the 6 x 250 Savage (6MM International).
Here is some additional information for those members that may not be familiar with this cartridge:
6 x 45mm (6mm-223 Remington)
Historical Notes:
The 6mm-223 Remington, also known as the 6x45mm, came into being in late 1965, shortly after Remington introduced the 223 Remington as a sporting round. Various experimenters built rifles for this cartridge (in order to take advantage of the reduced wind drift offered by the 6mm caliber, as opposed to the original 22 caliber bullet) for benchrest or varmint shooting. Jim Stekl, then manager of Remington's custom shop, set an IBS 200 yard Sporter aggregate record of .3069 MOA in 1973 using the 6x45mm. For a time, some owners of AR-15 rifles rebarreled their rifles to this caliber for use in NRA National Match Course competition. However, the 6x45mm can not compete successfully with the 7.62x51mmNATO (308 Winchester) round at ranges beyond 300 yards. After its brief flurry as a benchrest and match cartridge, the 6x45mm has now been relegated primarily a varmint cartridge, used by those who want more power than the 223 with the added advantage of being able to use cheap military brass for forming cases. Reloading dies are available from RCBS and chambering reamers from Clymer.
General Comments:
The 6x45mm is one of a series of 6mm benchrest cartridges based on necking up the 223 Remington and 222 Remington Magnum brass. None have any great advantage over the other, and all are capable of extremely fine accuracy. Probably the only advantage of the 6x45mm is that it is based on the 5.56mm (223 Remington) military case. On the other hand, its shorter permits the use of bullets up to 100 grains in weight to be seated to an overall length that will feed through magazine rifles such as the Colt AR-15, Ruger Mini-14, and Remington 788. In power, the 6x45mm is between the old 25-35 and the 250 Savage, which would make it rather marginal as a deer cartridge except under ideal conditions. It is, however, as close to ideal as a varmint and small game cartridge out to 300 yards. This cartridge has become very popular in the Thompson/Center Contender and Remington XP-100 handguns. Bob Milek, the first editor of Guns & Ammo and Peterson's Hunting magazines shot a custom XP-100 in 6x45mm for a number of years. Rifles chambered for cartridges in this group are pleasant to shoot, have relatively low report and are noted for long barrel life."
Source: Cartridges of the World0 -
Thanks to all of you for the advice. One reason I am looking at the 6mm/.223 is I would like to experiment with another wildcat cartridge.I enjoy reloading and like working up loads with different powders,bullets,primers etc. I believe just about every combination possible with the .243,.222,and 6mm Rem. has been tried and published somewhere. I do have a couple questions about the PPC. Is it really all it's hyped up to be accuracy wise? Also, I have read about differences in PPC chambers, something about tightneck chambers. Can anyone explain what exactly this means. The only wildcat I have a lot of experience with is my .30/.338 Win. Mag. I haven't loaded any of the 6mms.Again, thanks for all your advice,Mike 0 -
before the ppc came along the 6x47 was the benchrest champion of the 6mm family. It was developed by Mike Walker of Remington and scores of pages have been written on its virtues. Ideal case capacity etc. It also has a longer neck for bullet alignment compared to the 223 case. If you want top accuracy go with the 6x47. If you want cheap cases go with the 6x45. If you want expensive cases and the BEST possible accuracy go with the ppc. Caution*****this is an addictive hobby. 0 -
Mike,
Accuracy-wise, when all of the steps have been taken to insure accuracy, the 6PPC is at the top. But bear in mind that literally hundred of millions (yes millions!) of dollars have been invested into researching and testing the 6PPC cartridge by many thousands of competition shooters, powder manufacturers, bullet makers, barrel makers and rifle builders. Far more than any other cartridge in the history of shooting. When that amount of resources and when virtually every competitor in point blank benchrest shoots a PPC in one form or another, there is very little if any, capability for comparison. If everyone is shooting it, who or what do you compare it to? If the same effort and money were to be put into another cartridge, you would be amazed at what we could discover. It is the fear of failure that keeps everyone buying and shooting the 6PPC. New competitors feel that they have to have a 6PPC to even begin to get into competition because they want to be competitive.
It's the hard-headed, stubborn rebels that continually search for anything in a cartridge that could compete with the PPC's just so they didn't have to become part of the faceless mass of PPC shooters. They don't want to conform but rather, prefer to be stand alones by virtue of shooting a different cartridge. Even though I have owned and shot several PPC's for testing, I put all of my efforts into shooting anything but the PPC's. Wildcatting is the best escape from the PPC madness. Unfortunately, unbroken (or even slightly broken) ground costs more money. Oh well!
Tight neck chambers are cut with a reamer that has a neck diameter that is smaller than a SAAMI spec chamber. There are two version; the first being a no turn or minimum turn neck where the diameter of the neck portion of the chamber is just reduced in size from the generally oversized factory neck size to being just a couple of thousandths over the actual diameter of the cartridge neck with a bullet seated. This type of chamber minimizes the overworking of the neck by reducing the degree of expansion when the bullet is released. The second is a true tight neck where the the neck of the cartridge is turned significantly to bring it into concentricity with the rest of the case. The chamber is cut to be very close to the final dimension of the case neck with a bullet seated. Some are cut as close as 0.0005" (1/2 of 1 one thousandth). These types of chambers promote accuracy through concentricity and controlled neck tension/release.
It sounds more complicated than it really is. What is does, is create more work up front for the reloader, since case prep now has more steps. But the results in competition seem to prove out the process. For general varmint shooting or casual target shooting, it may not be as necessary as when shooting at the National level in competition.
Hopefully this helps a little...
Best of luck.0 -
In my oppinion oduse has it right.
I have been reloading for years
(IM OLD) . I do all the custom loading for rifles at our gunshop as well as my own . Ive owned several wildcats and have through years of experience learned that there are enough factory options
(calibers) available that wildcats are uneeded. The trouble of making and fireforming cases and other problems is not worth it ,when most of the time you end up duplicating something already available or so close to it there is no real difference.
The 222 will meet your requirements as described. You cant beat it.the world record group has ben held by the 222 for many years, how can you beat that?
It is the nature of gun "nuts" to change ,modify or make something else out of everything . That is one definite thing Ive learned in years in this business.0
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