winchester 1897
Hello, I am new to the forum and hope someone can help. I just picked up another model 97 take down and the top of the reciever on this one is matted. Haven't seen this. The slide is marked model 97 the serial # dates it 1940. From what i have read matted recievers where on trap models but the bolt is not marked trap thank's Gary
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I own an 1897 Black Diamond trap,
It has straight checked stock, small old style checked foreend, 12 ga, 30" bbl,solid ribbed, with matted receiver. The breech bolt is marked "Trap Gun".
My question is: Do all 1897 trap guns include the matted receiver?
Thanks0 -
Welcome to the forum Gary! Md 97 Trap guns actually had "Trap Gun" on the breech bolt up to 1926 which would be very visible, after 1926 some didn't have that, some did. Trap guns came with a Raised solid Rib, or Matted barrel, or plain barrel. If you are refering to the little groove in the front of the receiver being matted, I think the groove on all of them are matted. Trap guns also came with checkered stocks. According to one of my ref. books the Trap gun was discontinued in 1931. but that doesn't mean a special order didn't take place. From 1931-39 a Standard Trap was produced, this had the extended forearm, and a Special Trap gun, 1931-39, these had the "Black Diamonds" in the wrist area of the butt stock. Hope this helps you. Regards Dave 0 -
Thanks for the reply Dave, The serial # 874679 I believe it to be 1940.it has a plain 30 inch full choke barrel and a plain stock.The matting is across the whole top of the reciever.maybe it was just a special order. Gary 0 -
Gary: Are you refering to a flat no gloss blue when you say "matting"? Winchester had a "Matting Machine" which actually displaced metal. If you look at older Md 12s Traps or Skeets, on top of the receiver you will see the recevier was matted up to the Duck bill receiver ramp. They also "matted" the solid ribs, vent ribs, and barrels. It's very close to a herring bone pattern. They had a patten on this because it was no glare. Again if you are referring to the top of the receiver being "flat" in color as opposed to standard blue, your gun was reblued. Regards Dave
Go pull up item# 23321107 scan down to the 5th picture. Here you see the top of a solid rib, and the end of the receiever groove, they show the "Matting" that Winchester did. Also look at item 23374959 go to the 5th picture, here you see how they "Matted" the top of a receiver and the Duck Bill ramp.0 -
quote:Originally posted by only winchesters
Trap guns came with a Raised solid Rib, or Matted barrel, or plain barrel. If you are refering to the little groove in the front of the receiver being matted, I think the groove on all of them are matted. Trap guns also came with checkered stocks. According to one of my ref. books the Trap gun was discontinued in 1931. but that doesn't mean a special order didn't take place. From 1931-39 a Standard Trap was produced, this had the extended forearm, and a Special Trap gun, 1931-39, these had the "Black Diamonds" in the wrist area of the butt stock. Hope this helps you. Regards Dave
Dave... the Model 1897/97 was NEVER manufactured with a raised Solid rib, or a Vent rib. The only option available was a matted barrel.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
quote:Originally posted by gary66
Thanks for the reply Dave, The serial # 874679 I believe it to be 1940.it has a plain 30 inch full choke barrel and a plain stock.The matting is across the whole top of the reciever.maybe it was just a special order. Gary
Hello Gary,
Can you post a picture of your Model 97? That is the only way that I can give you a definitive answer to your question.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Bert: you are right, the 97 never came with a Factory Vent Rib. I never said they did. But you are wrong about Solid Ribs. Here's a quote from Stadt's book, "Number 1000000 was presented to John M. Olin on Sept. 6, 1951. It was engraved by John Kusmit and had a SOLID RIB". Md 1897/97s with a Solid Rib are rare, but they were made. Yes I have seen them, only 2 in the last 35 years, both were "Black Diamond" Grade Trap guns. Regards Dave 0 -
Hello Dave,
I will try to put this a different way...
Winchester never listed a Solid Rib barrel as an available option for the Model 1897/97. The fact that they made a very special presentation gun for Mr. Olin does not really count either... Winchester's presentation guns were always one-of-a-kind pieces of work.
In none of the many old Winchester catalogs in my personal collection, is there any mention what-so-ever of ribbed barrels being made or offered as a special order option, and that includes the Black Diamond Trap guns. The only special order barrel options offered were lengths from 26-inch to 32-inch, 3-blade or 4-blade damascus (up to 1914), and matted barrels.
I have no explanation for why you have seen two of them with solid ribs, but can say that I have never run into one them, and I have looked at thousands of them over the years. In light of all the available published information that clearly states that they were not made, any Model 1897/97 found with a solid ribbed barrel should be looked at with a very healthy dose of suspicion, and a very critical eye. I strongly suspect that both of the guns you saw were "helped".
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
http://photos.yahoo.com/gece3417 Bert.h I cannot figure out how to post a picture but you can go here to see the matting. Thanks, Gary 0 -
Pictures are good, glad I can log in now !!!! 0 -
Hello Gary...
I looked through several of my old Winchester catalogs, and a matted receiver was offered as a special order option only (never standard on any of the fancier grades). It is listed as being a $2.00 extra charge. Your Model 97 appears to have been ordered with that option.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0
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