Which scope for .450 BFR?
I have a BFR in .450 Marlin and have purchased a T'SOB base for it. It will primarily be used for deer and maybe black bear. MY question is what scope should I look for? 4X or 2X-7X...maybe a Holosight? I hunt a marsh where 100 yard shots are common. I absolutely love shooting the .450 and the only problem I've ever had is every once in a while it'll wheel up and the frame, which is as sharp as a knife, will cut into the web between my thumb and index finger.
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I've been asking a somewhat similar question myself. I kind of new to scoped handgun hunting, and only have two guns with scopes so far. One is a Dan Wesson 744 with an 8" barrel, and Bushnell Elite 3200 2-6x32mm. The other is a Smith & Wesson 500 magnum with an 8 3/8" barrel, and a Burris 1.5-4x Posi-Lock Scope.
The Bushnell has held up fine on the .44 mag, but the DW is relatively heavy for a .44 and the recoil isn't as much as you'd have with the BFR. The Burris is pretty tough and is much sharper optically than the Bushnell, but the problem I'm having with the Burris has to do with its eye relief. I'm tall with long arms (35" sleeve length), and with the Burris even at 1.5x it will black out if I'm not lined-up perfectly behind it. If I turn the power up, it's almost impossible to see through it unless I pull the gun back closer to me. This makes it hard to get on target fast or to follow moving targets. I have friends who are taller than I am, and they can't use the Burris at all. If you don't have long arms, the Burris might be a good choice for you.
I don't know for a fact, but I've heard some reports that Holosights have crapped out in less than 50 rounds in the 500. They'll fix them, but why bother?
I think the fixed 2x Leupold & Burris scopes have more generous eye relief than the variables, but I would still like to find a variable for mine. I was thinking about trying the Leupold 2.5-8x, but was hoping to get some input from someone with more experience before I take the plunge.
Hope this helps!0 -
Had 2 Dan Wesson 445 Super Mags with Bauch & Lombs 2X, and 2-7X.
Used tasco Pro Point PDX2, 3 and the 40mm.
Burris Speed Dots.
Leupold , and Burris 2X. 3X ,and 4X scopes.
Burris 1X (one power) dot scope.
Aimpoint 1000, 3000, 5000, and 5000-2X.
Tasco, Bushnell, and CZ (military) holo sights.
Now shoot primarilary a custom Lone Eagle in 7mm-08 with a 2x Burris.
The red coating is used to maintain a red internal dot. It does act as a filter blocking out some light, and some of the red color spectrum.
Best Dot sights....their not really scopes except for the Aimpoint 5000-2X are Aimpoints (NO parallax!), Burris Speed Dot, and Gilmore-Leupold for reliability, repeatability, and sight picture.
Downfall:
For shots less than 50 yds for most hunters UNLESS one practices, practices, AND practices.
In what I call "grey light" (early morning), or "dark light" (late afternoon-early evening), things that have red in then...like the color brown....AREN'T as visible....like deer.
If hunting in a misty (wet) area similar situation.
Favorites have been the Aimpoint 5000-2X, and Burris Speed Dot, with the Aimpoint my #1 choice.
Holo Sights are somewhat similar. Either the Bushnell or a military "built' one to hold up like the old CZ (favorite).
Usually the smaller the dot, the better the internal optics are. Large dots can easily hide problems.
True scopes:
Heavier plex actually helps maintain target aiming point. remember this is hunting in variable conditions (lighting), and not a precision one hole target match.
For hunting, I like a 1X, or 2X at ranges up to 75 yds. Those shots are usually much faster, and don't require as much aim time'.
If going to hunt where I know shots can be up to 100 yds, I the like a 3-4X. Longer shots require more set up (target aquisition), and aim time, so even though a 1-2X is faster, it's harder to "see" at longer ranges, and you need to 'see' at those distances.
On the powerhouse cartridges in hand guns, recoil is so much more intense that long guns...I prefer to stay with fixed powers....AND practice, practice, practice different position shots. Bench, post, prone, on the knee, downward like a tree stand, etc.
Biggest variable is the human factor. If equiptment is ok, we're the problem.
Personally find that almost all quality scope sighting problems are due to incorrectly adjusted scopes, if the scope, and reticle chosen are correct for the application.
Sometimes spend as much time assisting shooters at the range that I get to shoot. So I now go during the day, never on weekends if I can help it.
Rock solid mounting system is without question super important from the screw size and strength up thru the rings. Everything must be top notch or....problems are silently creeping up on you.
RAUL,
when you focused the scope....on what power was it set at?
Happy Bullet Holes!0 -
I have a thompson scope and it is nice, but when shooting a pistol I think that scopes hamper target acquisition. I'd go holo.
Ben
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I would really like to use the Holosight, I just want to make sure it will hold up to the recoil. I've had a friend tape me shooting and played it back in super slow motion and my bodies reaction to the .450 going off is unreal. I know its something in the film and being in slow motion but it actually looks like my forearm bends when it goes off. 0 -
I have a Leupold-Gilmore LG-35 red dot on my Casull and they will stand behind it's durability on the S&W 500 also. They told me that over the phone. They'd probably warrant the 450 also, that is if you're interested in a red dot scope.
Lmbhngr0 -
When I mentioned Holosights in my previous post, I was refering to a thread I saw within the last month or so in a handgun hunting forum. I don't remember the particulars or what forum it was. I'll try to find it and post a link to it if I can. The model they were discussing is the current model from EoTech, which I believe is the same one Bushnell sells with their name on it.
Guns & Glass: To answer your question, I focused the eyepiece on the Burris at 4x when I set it up last year. I usually shoot two-handed with my arms extended. At 1.5x, if I weave around, what I see through the scope looks like little black cresents coming in from the sides. If I crank it up to 4x, it will black out completely, kind of like flipping at light switch on and off real fast. It's distracting as hell! I agree with your comment about 1x - 2x for up to 75 yards or so, and 3x - 4x for beyond that. That's why I got the Burris in the first place. The Leupold variable has a little too much magnification (2.5x) on the low end for my tastes, and a lot more than I need on the top end (8x). I may just have to go with a straight 2x optical or maybe some kind of red dot scope. Could you offer more input on the Aimpoint 5000-2x, Burris Speed Dot, and Burris 2x on your Lone Eagle?
Lmbhngr Could you tell us more about the Leupold-Gilmore LG-35 on your Casull? How it handles, what you like about it, battery life, etc.
jlemon I'd like to hear more about your .450 BFR. I'm a big .45/70 fan and I've wanted a BFR for quite awhile.
Thanks all!0 -
RAOUL--It's a 10" Model I've had for a few months now. I originally went in for a 10.5" Super Blackhawk Hunter but instantly wanted the BFR when I seen it. Fit and finish are superb and it shoots like a dream. As I said in an earlier post, my only complaint is that knife edge frame drawing some blood. All I've shot out of it so far are 350gr Hornady factory loads but even with those it still has a bit of a kick and I'm 6'5" 240lbs. I'm seriously thinking of sending it off to Mag-na-port to tame it down a little and maybe a 45-70 cylinder in the future. I've had several Super Blackhawk 44's and a Taurus Raging Bull in .454 and the BFR is by far my favorite, not to take anything away from the Taurus or the Ruger as both were excellent handguns. 0 -
I wanted a red dot for my Ruger Super Redhawk .454 w/7-1/2" barrel as I thought target acquisition would be easier, if "rushed" in a hunting situation, than a normal scope. I have a 4x on my SRH in .44 mag and it's very difficult to find a good sight picture shooting off-hand besides it being so massive. (it does look really cool and will scare the bejesus out of you just looking at it) I liked knowing that the bullet would hit what the dot was on regardless of where the dot was in the sight picture. L/G was the only manufacturer I found that would stand behind their product under the violent recoil of the .454 Casull. That was three years ago.
I bought the 4 minute dot version with 12 position dot intensity. The unlimited eye relief was a nice selling point also...especially for you looooonnng armed fellas. It has 1/3 MOA adjustment and anti-reflective lens coating that helps improve the dot defintion. It still has the original battery in it. I like it's compactness and it doesn't add a lot of additional weight and bulkiness to an already big, heavy gun. Because of the caliber I had to use 4 rings and of course a magnum adapter that replaces the rear sight, for much needed stability. I also bought the Leupold weaver style magnum base for the Ruger mounting set-up.
One thing for sure, they're much cheaper now than when I bought mine. If a guy wants a red dot for any gun IMO you can't go wrong with L/G...the name, the warranty, the reputation.
Lmbhngr0 -
Raoul,
Asked about the power because it makes a difference in quality of sight picture AND the reticle.
What you're experiencing is normal for ALL optics.
Handgun scopes(extended range)have Eye Relief averaging of 11-24".
@ 1.5X eye relief will be 12.5 mm (1/2") circle of light.
@ 4X eye relief will be 5.3" (little less that 7/32").
With a reach of 35" + the distance the scope is away from your wrist, it's no wonder you have trouble with blackouts.
Darn hard trying to not only hold the rig still, but keep it in line with one's eye.
Solution is to hold back the rig, and /or shoot from a rest-support-bipod-mono pod that let's you creep up on the gun.
You can try one thing that will not only help in holding distance, but in stabilization.
Try using a rubber double end loop gun sling for long guns available at some gun shows. sell for about $15.
Loop the ends so you can fit your wrist thru on the weak side, and the grip on the gun.
Wear it around your body, or neck, and when you want to shoot.... simply push out& away. Tension on the strap wants to pull back, and the counterforce in your arms helps stabilize.
It takes some getting used to....but results are what matters.
If you can't find one, I have some extras.
Red dots & holo sights do work,...butt....try viewing when it's dark.
I always caary a set of good binocs, because when it's dark....you can't see as well with red dots, and holos.
Happy Bullet Holes!0 -
GUNS & GLASS: Thanks for your info. I've been trying to educate myself about handgun scopes without doing it the expensive way. I don't understand, however, how you attach the rubber double end loop gun sling to a revolver. Could you explain that in a little more detail?
It seems to me that the scope manufacturers can design a scope that has long eye relief, or a with a wide field of view, but the two are mutually exclusive. In other words, scopes like Burris that have a wide field of view usually have the shortest eye relief, and scopes like Bushnell that have long eye relief usually have the narrowest field of view. Also, it seems like the scope manufacturers must not all use the same criteria in determining these specifications, either that, or the published information may just not be very accurate.
The Bushnell Elite 3200 2-6x32mm scope is supposed to have a constant 20" eye relief regardless of the magnification setting. My Bushnell 2-6x does have a narrower field of view than my Burris 1.5-4x, but the Bushnell has much longer eye relief. It's mounted to my Dan Wesson .44 with Burris mounts/rings that are attached to the barrel shroud. I can hold the DW with my normal grip and have no black out up 4x. At 5x I start to get those black cresents again. However, if I pull the gun into me a couple of inches, I can hand hold it even at 6x with no black out. I can shoot the DW this way, but I'm not comfortable shooting the S&W 500 this way.
On my S&W 500, I have Leupold mounts/rings that replace the S&W rear sight. Because of this mounting location, the center of the mount sits about 2 1/2" further to the rear on the S&W 500. With the Burris 1.5-4x, I get those black cresents even at 1.5x. If I switched the Bushnell over to the S&W 500, I think I might be able to use my normal grip without any black out even at 6x because of the increased eye relief. I think I might try this the next time out. If the Bushnell works out on the S&W, I could try a red dot or Aimpoint on the DW I guess, or maybe just get another Bushnell 2-6x.0
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