Question:attnt Only Winchesters
At the Lakeland Fl. gunshow yesterday I came across a nice model 12 Winchester,seemed to be in good shape, matching #s ect. 16 Ga. marked seemingly by factory, cyl. about 3/4 inch toward the muzzle from cyl marking was mod marked out. Price in mid 400s I was seriously looking at it but did not buy it only because of the marked out choke. Would you or anyone have an idea about those markings?. Barrell 26 or 28 in. did not get that far.
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Hello captain cove...
Exactly how was the "MOD" part of the choke stamp marked out? It sounds suspicous to me, and without seeing it in hand (and measuring the actual choke constriction), it is tough to say what has happened to the gun.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Hello Captain! I can tell you that it never left the factory like that!! You were wise not to buy it. during the manufacturing process on barrel. Once the barrel was machined outside and inside, it went to the honing/ lapping area. this is where the bore was polished, then they lapped the choke in. If the manufacturing ticket called for modified, they lapped in the modifed choke, or cyl. or Full, the barrel was tagged with the choke, then went to ID where the FULL, Mod., or Imp/Cly, or Cly. Was stampped onto the barrel, then it went to the roll die are were Winchester Model 12 and the rest of the info on the barrel was done. Steel stamps are quite common in the metal manufacturing world. Almost all gunsmiths have a set of letters and numbers. My guess is someone wanted the choke opened up and a gunsmith did it, and marked the barrel. Regards Dave 0 -
The mod stamping was lined out but you could still tell what it said. From what you two said I feel much better that I did not buy it. Glad good information is available on this forum. 0 -
I'mnot sure about 16Ga., but some of the early wartime barrels that were full and modified in 28 and 30 inch lengths, were cut to 20 to 20-1/2", the original choke designation marked out with a single line and remarked "CYL" ..Of course the choked portion of the barrel was thown out and what remained was a CYL. bored barrel suitable for the riot and trench guns needed for the war effort....Don't know if the GOV. ever used 16's.......... 0 -
Good morning all. I don't remember if I read it in Maddis' book or Riffles, but on the Md 12. Winchester only made 10 or 12, 16ga. Riot guns period. It was a special order for some Prison. If you run accross one, it would be worth a small fortune!! It would also be I.D.'d with the Prison markings on the Butt and possibly the receiver. As far as early "War" time 12 ga. barrels being cut and remarked, I've never heard that. I do know when I come accross Riot or Trench barrels the most common year seems to be 1943. I've never seen a Riot or Trench gun that "appeared authentic" with the choke marking lined out and CLY. stamped below something else. But that doesn't mean it never happened. I do know the Military, mostly the Army bought a lot of long guns, for training bomber gunners. Got them use to leading the target. Some Military Aresenal may have cut long guns down to riots, that would be a possibility, and remark the choke. I always chuckle, when some num-nuts puts a "riot gun" up for auction or sale, with a SHORT barrel marked FULL. Guess there are just a lot of uninformed people out there! LOL Regards Dave 0 -
quote:Originally posted by only winchesters
I always chuckle, when some num-nuts puts a "riot gun" up for auction or sale, with a SHORT barrel marked FULL. Guess there are just a lot of uninformed people out there! LOL Regards Dave
Me too Dave[:D] I seriously doubt that the Military cutdown any original long barreled Model 12s either... it was simply way too easy to order them as Trench or Riot length.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0
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