semi-auto ban expiration---gun values?
Im just wondering when the ban expires what is gonna happen to pre-ban rifle prices?? the ban may be over, but ther are still differences in how the recvrs are milled..is this correct? If I understand it right the preban rifles had the same millwork as their military cousins so that theoreticly you could take an m-16 firing mech. and put it in a preban rifle but that the post ban rifles were milled different so you couldnt do this. Most of the awb rules were cosmetic...collapsible stock..etc but am i right about the millwork?...I want an ar15 or an ar-15 clon so bad I cant stand it but i am holding off because im hoping the prices will come down.....any and all comments welcome
SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST e-mail alisonandwalt@charter.net
SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST e-mail alisonandwalt@charter.net
0
-
You cannot legally put M16 fire control components or an M16 bolt carrier into any semi automatic AR-15 type rifle and this prohibition has been in force for well over 20 years. A Bushmaster lower receiver built one year before or one year after the 1994 ban did not change. Colt lowers were modified in 1990 (four years before the ban) to prevent the possible insertion of the so called Drop In Auto Sear but this is not an M16 component, it was a commercial production item.
Mark T. Christian0 -
Most receivers are cast, some are forged. But, it doesn't make a lot of difference as the receivers are not stressed in this type of rifle.
The term "AR-15" is copyrighted by Colt; it is unlikely that it will ever be made again. They prefer to use more politically correct names such as "sporter".
Current prices for AR-type clones is as low as you will see them; it doesn't cost any more to make a pre-ban rifle than a post-ban rifle. Whether or not the prices of pre-ban rifles will drop is unknown, but don't expect the bottom to fall out on these guns.
Neal0 -
well what i meant was are the prices oin the preban rifles gonna come down?? i know the rifles arent going to be cheap just will the prebans come down because the big selling point with them was you can have all the pre-ban accessories and now you will be able to have those accessories on any rifle in other word why would you pay $850 for a preban when now you can put all those goodies on a $650 post ban rifle and be just as happy
SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST e-mail alisonandwalt@charter.net0 -
Well, the short answer is, "No one knows."
People didn't pay high prices for pre-ban guns because they wanted flash hiders & bayonet lugs; they paid them because they wanted rifles that Congress said that they could no longer buy. Since there was only a fixed supply, the demands of the market forced prices higher.
I don't think prices will drop for guns that are NIB; they will always be collectible. After all, a 3rd generation Colt Single Action Army will do everything a 1st generation SAA will do, but the prices are quite different.
Neal0 -
My opinion is that older Colts will not come down because they are not made anymore. New AR type rifles are going to be cheaper, thats just my 2C.
PJ
If nobody seen you do it, how could you have done it. NRA Endowment Member, AF&AM0 -
The truly collectable pre-ban stuff will hold their price and like other collectable items they will generally appreciate in value over time.
The lesser quality stuff, for which "pre-ban" was the primary selling point, will sink to appropriate levels and pretty much stay there.
Mag. prices will likely come down some, but right now there is some uncertainty that may keep prices up some ... however I think the day of the $75 (and up) Ruger 10/22, 30 rnd. mags. is pretty much over and done with.
The more important question(s), at least to me, is/are what the politicians will come up with after they get elected/re-elected, say around mid-to-late-2005 ................
If you only have time to do two things so-so, or one thing well ... do the one thing!0 -
If a new "post-post-ban" firearm is identical to the "pre-ban" firearm, the value of pre-bans will probably go down. If it's somewhat different, the pre-ban will still have collector value, but probably not as much as during the post-ban period.
Hmmmmm......does that sound as silly to you as it does to me? [:D]0 -
It seems that the price of the pre-bans will not be dramatically decreasing because these weapons are unique and collectable. Also it would seem that the prices of the current run of clones will not be dramatically decreasing either because they cost what they cost to manufacture and market.
Maybe all that will be seen now that the ban has expired are clones with bayonet lugs, extended magazines, and folding stocks, etc. for the current price plus a premium to add the previously banned goodies just mentioned.
I would hope (although no evidence at this time) that Ruger extended magazines etc. will be on the way down.
It is absolutely ludicrous that during the ban a person could buy 30, 40, 50, and 80 round magazines for SKS and AK rifles, but not a 25 round magazine for the 10/22, without a premium for it being pre-ban. This is the contradiction that I hope will go away now that the ban is over.
In fact, I suspect that many of the pre-ban Ruger magazines were not really pre-ban magazines at all, but were actually manufactured outside of the country after the ban and sold as pre-ban.
Regards,
Heavyiron[8D]0 -
In my opinion, this value issue applies primarily to Colts and imports.
Colt most likely will never make AR-15-style rifles again (with small pins, no sear block, etc.) so the value of Colt AR-15 rifles will not be affected by the end of the ban. They are at least 20 years old and now mostly collector items anyway, apart from the ban issue.
Over most of its history, Colt has made bad marketing decisions. A good one would be to now make absolutely identical semi-automatic clones of the M-4, etc., but I will not hold my breath. I will wish, however.
The import ban remains in effect so the value of FN-FALs, AUGs, SIGs, etc. will not change. It may help reduce the value of magzines. I suspect my Beretta AR-70 30-round magazines that were worth as much as $150-$300 during the ban may now decline to $50-$75 or so if Beretta will import them again. Since Beretta cannot import the AR-70 under existing law, the value of the rifle will not change. If Beretta were to begin making it here, I believe my Italian AR-70 would still hold most of its value for a collector wanting the original Italian-made version over the domestic version, just like some pay more for Italian 92 pistols.
The fact that Pre-ban and Post-sunset rifles that appear identical but are a decade difference in age may now be available may not affect the value of the older rifles that much. After all, many collectors will still want the older guns. A 1955 Colt Python will always be worth more than a 1965 Colt Python, which is worth more than a 1975 Python, etc., even though, except for very minor details, are all identical. Collectors always like the earlier versions.
If makers like Bushmaster will make their Post-Sunset current rifles with all the M-16 features (except select fire of course), which Colt and ArmaLite probably never will (neither Colt nor ArmaLite are likely to open up the receiver area to original AR-15 specifications), I think there is an untaped market for those starved for "real" looking M-16 clones for the last ten years. I hated the appearance of Post-Ban rifles so much that I may have to buy a true M-4 clone myself. Who will be the first to build it?
Thinking ahead, just think of all the domestic Ban-era rifles that will now be modified to Pre-Ban/Post-Sunset configuration. In ten years or so, the unmodified Ban-era rifles will be highly collectable! Ironic, no?
A question to ponder. With William Ruger (the primary father of the magazine limit ban) dead, will Ruger step up and finally sell the Mini-14 GB, 30-round magazines and factory-folding stocks on the civilian market?0 -
wow you uys know alot more about this stuff than i do..I just figured the big deal was that you could put all the pre-ban accessories on a preban rifle but you guys seem to thinf as a group that the pre-bans were more collectible because you could swap out components with an m-16????...im trying to get a clear picture because before the years end I will own a .223 rifle of some sort. I hope to get a carbine with a collapsible stock..those are my main considerations..aside from the fact that I want to get a reputible brand name..armalite..bushmaster..colt..etc..I need yalls help because I dont know alot about these rifles and being able to swap m-16 components isnt real important to me.just a quality, reliable rifle (carbine preferred) that I can put a collapsible stock on..This may sound bad but I need the collapsible stock so my son who is 11 can shoot it..He wouldnt forgive me if I didnt
SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST e-mail alisonandwalt@charter.net0 -
I wish you had told us this the first time.
No, swapping M16 parts was never a consideration for anyone hoping to buy a pre-ban rifle. The only reason folks wanted pre-ban guns is because the government told them that they couldn't have them. No one needed a flash hider or bayonet lug!
I agree with your desire to buy a reputable brand. My preference is Colt, but I think that the best value is Bushmaster. In any case, whether you buy pre-ban, during-ban, or post-ban, price should guide you in your selection.
I don't agree with your reasons for buying a carbine. We gave full size M16's to the Vietnamese, who are small people, & they had no trouble firing them. An 11 year old who can't handle a full size AR-clone is just too small to handle this rifle safely. Besides, at this age, he should be learning the basics of aimed fire, something difficult to do with the short barrel & collapsible stock. There's no way to get a cheek weld with a collapsible stock. Be patient; he'll be bigger than you in 2-3 years. Have him stick with his .22 rimfire until he is physically & mentally ready to move up to something bigger.
Neal0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
11 comments