Gun Serial Numbers on Auctions.
To the experts - I have a trivia question of concern that I will be grateful for a correct answer. Many times a seller list a gun's serial number as 345XXX. I assume he is hiding the number for a reason and I wonder why. To cover the identity puts out a question, to me anyway. If the seller legally has a right to sell the gun why the cover up? Numbers can be typed almost as easily as "X's". Thank you for those correct answers.
Dr. J. Curtis Lane
Dr. J. Curtis Lane
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Hello Doc....
In my humble opinion, there is no real valid reason for omiting part of the serial number.
However, some people do it out of ignorant paranoia. The excuse I have heard most often is that someone might try to claim that the gun is stolen. My response to that is this... if it really is stolen, then it should be returned to the rightful owner. I don't buy the story that some low-down thief will try to claim that a gun he finds listed on the internet is stolen either... it opens up WAY too many questions that the potential thief can not possibly answer to the law enforcement folks, and it opens him/herself up to investigation (something that crooks/thiefs/criminals do not ordinarily want to do).
If you check out all of the reputable firearms auction houses, they all provide complete serial numbers for the firearms they are selling.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
The only rationale to offer is that some people feel more comfortable not revealing the full s/n for "whatever" reason(s) they have.
I've even seen people do this, then post a picture of the gun where the full s/n is visable.
I don't believe that there is a "legality" issue here. The sellers are the owner or agents for the owner and they are following the regulations of the site, laws for sale/transfer, etc. If it were an illegal (stolen) gun it is much more likely that they would try and sell it at a yard sale, flea market, or gun show as a private sale. But there is the rebuttal that not all criminals are smart. Lord knows I've seen my share of the dumb ones and not very many that I would describe as being overly bright.
You do what you feel comfortable with. Me I list the s/n and I think it helps when people are asking for info. if they give the whole number. Not because it typically pins down the exact date of mfg., because in most cases with the reference books you are working with a range of s/n ... It's more a matter of feeling that they have not made a mistake in trying to only give a partial. Typically omitting prefix or in some cases suffix letters.
Does this explain the practice, no ... and there really is no complete explanation, but I hope it helps you to understand the practice, mindsets, etc.
If you only have time to do two things so-so, or one thing well ... do the one thing!0 -
privacy - usually just show the numbers that show model and/or year of mfg 0 -
Bert is right on but is being a gentleman. The numbers should be listed for collectors benefit. The people that don't list the numbers are stupid and are possibly losing a sale.
Some halfwit gun wag like Jan Libourel, a former G&A writer/editor and present burnout, started the trend with the XXX's. Since a bigshot like him did it, it must be right! But, it wasn't and never has been. The buyer will one day see the number (duh) and if he wants to run it he can. If a seller thinks just because he got your money, he is off the hook, SURPRISE!.
Actually, there is compelling reason to PUT the number out. What keeps a dirty buyer from swapping a defective weapon? You didn't list your serno, so whose to say that isn't the weapon you sent him? Think about it.
Stupidity is one of my pet peeves (ya think?).
Sometimes I wonder if anything is ever ended. The words a man speaks today live on in his thoughts or the memories of others, and the shot fired, the blow struck, the thing done today is like a stone tossed into a pool and the ripples keep widening out until they touch lives far from ours
To succeed as a human being is not always the same as succeeding in your life's work, although they can go hand in hand. L'Amour
Stolen from, and with thanks, to Kiwibird0 -
Originally posted by Bert H.
Hello Doc....
In my humble opinion, there is no real valid reason for omiting part of the serial number.
Bert,
There is a valid reason. I do it when I'm too lazy to open the gun safe, but remember the approximate number. Seriously, I never understood the reason and have always marked it off to paranoia. You and I both know the value of old auction catalogs that list serial numbers. I just finished going through 450 of them while working on my Webley book.0 -
Dear Bert
Your thoughts are as mine. Hope there will be other opinions as is a common practice even on Gunbpoker,com. Thanks for your input on this common but trivia practice.
Dr. J. Curtis Lane0 -
MOSTY WE LEAVE OUT THE NUMBERS JUST TO YANK BERTS CHAIN AND SEE HIM "HOP". SEEMS TO WORK.[:D][:D][:D]
I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.0 -
Bert, Yours is the best explanation of the XXX serial numbers I have seen. I have learned that a 1903 Springfield advertised at auction without any serial number is most often a low number. Nobody covers up serial numbers at gun shows or in gun shops yet anyone coming by can see what it is. I have asked on the forums for any instance that an actual problem was caused by listing a complete serial number. No one has provided a factural instance where this has happened. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by duckhunter
MOSTY WE LEAVE OUT THE NUMBERS JUST TO YANK BERTS CHAIN AND SEE HIM "HOP". SEEMS TO WORK.[:D][:D][:D]
I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.
[:D][}:)][:D]
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
The numbers should be listed for collectors benefit. The people that don't list the numbers are stupid and are possibly losing a sale.
Most of the guns sold on GunBroker are not anything "collectable." The full serial number does nothing to help a potential buyer in such cases.
The practice can best be justified as one of "privacy seeking" for both the seller and buyer.
Anyone in the world can view auctions on GunBroker; when you consider things like our own government trying to keep a record of all internet data when the internet was in it's infancy (the NSA was trying this, but the rapid growth of the internet made this impossible), being "a little paranoid" shouldn't be equated with "stupidity."
Call it "stupid" if you like, but in auctions other than for a collectable firearm, you can't give a good argument as to why the serial number should be published for all the world to see.
"Strength is the outcome of need; security sets a premium on feebleness." -- H.G. Wells (The Time Machine)0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
... some people do it out of ignorant paranoia. The excuse I have heard most often is that someone might try to claim that the gun is stolen. My response to that is this... if it really is stolen, then it should be returned to the rightful owner. I don't buy the story that some low-down thief will try to claim that a gun he finds listed on the internet is stolen either... it opens up WAY too many questions that the potential thief can not possibly answer to the law enforcement folks, and it opens him/herself up to investigation (something that crooks/thiefs/criminals do not ordinarily want to do).
I won't call those who do list full serial numbers as being "ignorant;" I don't know why those who criticize the practice feel the need to "insult" those who like privacy.
I'll also say that your position assumes that crooks think about "long-term" issues--which they normally don't.
It could be difficult to prove (expensive and time consuming) that a gun confiscated by the police as being stolen was actually stolen--as contrasted with the possibility that the numbers got into the system when someone committed insurance fraud.
If someone wanted to commit insurance fraud--either staging a fake burglary or inflating their loss after an actual burglary--GunBroker is a "treasure trove" of information if all sellers are listing full serial numbers. Putting a few "lifted" serial numbers on a police report and on an insurance claim form (without thought about the penalties) isn't inconsistent with behavior of someone willing to commit insurance fraud.
"Strength is the outcome of need; security sets a premium on feebleness." -- H.G. Wells (The Time Machine)0 -
Sorry Competentone, but it IS inconsistent with someone trying to commit insurance fraud. Most of my guns have sales receipts from gunshops or the US government; anyone attempting to claim one after filing a false police report would undoubtedly find himself in jail. Con artists aren't THAT stupid; they know most items with serial numbers will have documentation.
Neal
"Even if you're paranoid, that doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you."0
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