Pros and Cons of magazine disconnect safeties
I was reading about the new Ruger Polymer .45 autos. The pistol will include the disconnect safety which means it cannot be fired without the magazine even if a round is chambered. Ruger plans to offer the same pistols to law enforcement without this safety. It seems to me that if it is bad for law enforcement, its bad for us as well. I was wondering if this is a big deal or simply a minor anoyance? Is it difficult to disable this function without damaging the integrity of the pistol?
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They are doing it merely to avoid litigation for a gun being "unsafe" as the gun grabbers want to call it. The only real con I can think of though that the mag disconnect safeties present are that the gun has more parts. For me though it's really a non-issue, mag disconnect safety or not, who goes out and shoots a semi-automatic without a magazine in it? 
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For ridowns3: Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. The author of the article was concerned that one might have a round left, the slide locks back by accident, making the shooter believe the magazine is empty, drops the mag to reload, and then, before inserting new mag, is attacked or something and can't fire the remaining round. Or, they drop and damage the mag and cannot insert it or a round. Yeah, I know, this is probably not something I am going to run into. I wanted to way these nightmare scenarios against reality. Again, I appreciate your point of view...makes a lot of sense. I like your Osama picture, its hysterical! 0 -
I dislike a Mag safety for the reasons you gave. If the mag is out of the gun, it won't fire.I don't know of a single LEO that would want one.
Browning was one of the first and incorporated it in the Hi-Power. It was also added to the Model M 1903 in the 40s.At that point in time it was a safety feature.Since removing a mag does not ensure the pistol is unloaded, the mag safety prevented a round left in the chamber from being fired.
Mag safeties can easily be disabled, but from a legal standpoint should be avoided.If the pistol is used in a self-defense situation, the removal of a "Safety" feature can be a thumbs-down !!
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob0 -
My cousin who was an LEO killed himself with an autoloader that did not have a Mag. Disconect safety. This occured 30 years ago. His
department had recently switched from revolvers to autoloaders and he dropped the mag and left one in the spout.
It was a sad deal all the way around....
I own a few guns with Mag. disconect safeties. I really do on like them. I have fired Browning HP and S&W's that were modified. The trigger pull is night and day.
Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Liberals....0 -
OK, Picture this: Sometime in the future: You are in the firefight of your life. The(insert your favorite boogy-man here) are closing in on you and your AK is dry. Your pistol has 1 shot left, you know because you pulled the mag out, threw it down, and squeeze checked the chamber. But ho, you spy a squad of the boogy-men comming, the point man is 20 feet away, can you find your mag, reinsert it and fire in time??? Maybe you should have had a 1911 style with no mag safety!!!![:D]
SEMPER FI MAC, SEMPER FI0 -
Hello another point is if you have a mag safety on sme guns LIKE browning HP you get a different trigger pull it feels jerky or scracthy nmot good for target work. quote:"PRAISE THE HARD BALL GUN" 0 -
quote:Originally posted by pack rat633
OK, Picture this: Sometime in the future: You are in the firefight of your life. The(insert your favorite boogy-man here) are closing in on you and your AK is dry. Your pistol has 1 shot left, you know because you pulled the mag out, threw it down, and squeeze checked the chamber. But ho, you spy a squad of the boogy-men comming, the point man is 20 feet away, can you find your mag, reinsert it and fire in time??? Maybe you should have had a 1911 style with no mag safety!!!![:D]
SEMPER FI MAC, SEMPER FI
Sounds more monty python'ish than real life'ish.[:D]0 -
More moving parts; not good. Lost or stolen clip? Worst case scenario I'd rather have a one shot pistol than a paperweight. Even if you can disable the feature, you're then increasing potential liability if someone argues in court that you deliberately made your firearm "less safe".
Rob
Rob0 -
In some guns, the magazine disconnect has a negative effect on trigger action.
As to pros and cons:
Some officers who chose the Smith & Wesson pistols with the disconnect thought it was a good idea. The logic was, that if a bad guy should go for your gun, and the two of you end up grappling for it, and if it looks like the bad guy is going to end up with it, MAYBE the officer could hit the mag release and render the gun inoperable.
I don't agree with that line of thinking.
Others, wanting a gun for home defense, like the idea of leaving the chamber loaded but keeping the magazine out of the gun. The gun is "safe" should a child find it, yet the adult with the magazine can make it operational in seconds.
Personally, I don't care for the disconnect, and don't own a gun that has one. If the magazine gets lost or damaged, or if I get surprised in the middle of a magazine change, at least I have one shot.
SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com the best gun auction site on the Net! Email gpd035@sbcglobal.net0 -
I have to ask, and not to be disrespectful, but I am curious as to those that have really been in a gunfight, did you count your shots in the heat of the moment to know that you only had one round left and stop to change magazines or did you keep yanking the trigger until the gun was empty and even squeeze the trigger a couple more times as the adrenalin was rushing as I did?
I can't honestly say I remember even hearing the shots much less counting them and really caring if the pistol would fire without a magazine. First and foremost on my mind was pump as many rounds into them as possible then swap mags, if still standing then fire some more.0 -
No one counts shots.
But, you might need the single shot in the chamber if you were surprised in the middle of a tactical reload.
SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com the best gun auction site on the Net! Email gpd035@sbcglobal.net0 -
Pay attention to what nunn's saying. He's right on this one, especially about the tactical reload.
Most officers are trained to change to a fresh magazine during a gunfight if he figures his mag is almost empty. If during this mag change, he needs that one round, it could mean him surviving or not.
I'd rather have a single shot pistol than a paper weight!
"The Greatest Battle Implement Ever Devised!"
-- Gen. George S. Patton
referring to the M1 Garand0 -
ever load an empty mag in a panic? at least one round in the gun with an empty mag in will fire the one round. i like the feature for nunns example. one round in and an adult loading is good. and if an owner doesnt cycle the gun clear daily, accidents are their own fault.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0 -
quote:Originally posted by bobski
ever load an empty mag in a panic? at least one round in the gun with an empty mag in will fire the one round. i like the feature for nunns example. one round in and an adult loading is good. and if an owner doesnt cycle the gun clear daily, accidents are their own fault.
I can understand the tactical reload, god knows I did it enough in the army and in police academy training, but in actual combat I can't think of anybody that was with me that did a tactical reload. We all fired till we were dry and then reloaded with a fresh magazine, didn't have time to consider a tactical reload.
It is just my opinion but I just don't really see a pro or con either way except that the gun has more parts.0 -
I don't buy into the "what's good for cops is good for us" when it comes to guns. The reason is that they face different dangers and responsibilities than we do.
What I mean is that for them, being in a riot situation is part of the job and a magazine safety would make sense if you're fighting with one person and another goes for your gun. You could pop out the magazine and you would be unarmed, but at least your gun wouldn't be used on you.
For me as a civilian, if I have my gun displayed to a bad guy it's gonna get used and I want to be able to fire that one round in the pipe during a magazine change should the situation call for it (such as if they charged your position in your house when he heard you reloading). You might not always run the gun and mag clear empty and that would be ideal...
In fact, I specifically buy the S&W "FBI" 10mm's because they DO NOT have the magazine disconnect safety. The guns lacking this feature are a couple hundred bucks higher generally...0 -
Personally, I operate off of the K.I.S.S. principal.
(keep it simple stupid)
Everyone is going to have a different opinion about this, and you will probably hear just enough to confuse you.
I say if you don't have a spacific reason to have a more complicated weapon then don't get one. In other words if you don't think that you will have a spacific need for a mag safety then stay away from it, because it may come back to bite you later. Remember (KISS)
Like bobski said, if someone gets dead or injured because they don't have a mag safety, then it's probably their own fault.
"There are those who make things happen, those that watch things happen and those that say, what happend?"
AC Tactical0 -
Very good! K.I.S.S. Either you get "used" to your guns with the disconnect or NEVER own guns without one. A person will adapt to what he has got and keep it that way. I would not want to face any of the posters who are competant with either one! IMO nambu 0 -
i mean serious..the problem is the gun mfg'ers and left wingers are trying to do the thinking for us. they are trying to eliminate the human factor of thinking for ourselves. bottom line...if everyone would "treat every gun as if it were loaded," and would "not place your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot," none of these gizmos would be needed. its NRA basics folks. i wonder how many died to make those rules valid?
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0
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