Astra Modelo 1921 (400)
I have one of these in 9mm Largo caliber. I have been looking at the website called "9mm Largo" and see by my serial number in the 19,800's that the pistol was made in 1924. I have looked carefully and can see no Spanish Military Acceptance Marks of any kind. (Inspectors markings) Does this mean this is a civilian version even tho it is listed in the numerical sequence of pistols issued to the Carbineros? One other question; my pistol has two (2) crests on the slide, one common one which says ASTRA, and one closer to the muzzle which is a crown with light rays surrounding it. What is the designation of this crest as the slide shown in the website does not have it. Any information will be appreciated.
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Post to this forum, the moderator and the folks who frequent it are very knowledgeable collectors of Spanish pistols.
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=70
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Thanks. I just registered and posted a request for info. See what we get. John 0 -
The Astra 400's were made in two different factories and not all were delivered to the Spanish Military or Police. Some were made for export, mostly Guernica-produced guns which carry standard proofs. A word of caution: Some people maintain that these guns will fire ammunition other than that for which they were intended. Do not do this. The 400's were chambered for the 9mm Bergmann No.6, which became known in Spain as the 9mm Largo, differentiating it from the 9mm Parabellum. The Bergmann was a 9x23, developed at the request of several European military establishments who wanted a cartridge with more punch than the 9mm Parabellum. It was discovered that, if the rear of the chamber were relieved for a rim, the guns would also function with .38 ACP ammunition, which was a semi-rimmed 9x23 designed by Browning and used in Colts. The 'relieving' was standardized and the guns were marked '9mm/38' as a marketing tool. From this may have grown the idea that the guns would shoot anything that could be shoved into them. When Colt up-loaded the .38ACP to the .38 Super Auto, it just about reached the original Largo/Bergmann loading, the Super Auto and the Largo/Bergmann both being considerably hotter than the 9x19 Parabellum. This is all to say that the 400's are only safe with a cartridge of 9x23 dimensions, and because of their age should probably be fired only with the minimum-powered ammunition. NEVER consider firing a 9x23 Winchester in one, or a 9mm Luger or 9mm Steyr or anything else. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by mgx
The Bergmann was a 9x23, developed at the request of several European military establishments who wanted a cartridge with more punch than the 9mm Parabellum.
The above statement is erroneous!
The Bergmann 9mm cartridge, 9 x 23mm, predates the 9mm luger, 9 x 19mm., by at least 5 years. It originally dates to 1897 when it was developed by Theodor Bergmann for his "MARS" pistol. This pistol was the forerunner of the Bergmann & Bergmann-Bayard pistols. The first pistols chambered for the 9mm Luger cartridge were introduced in 1902.0 -
I got a reply on the other forum which said that the crown and sunburst crest on the slide is the "logo" of a Spanish military detatchment called the Carabineros, and as such is the same as a Spanish Military Acceptance mark. Some other pistols have the mark like the Mercedes-Benz hood ornament which serves the same purpose. I have fired .38ACP which is pleasant to shoot, 9mm Steyr, also pleasant to shoot, current 9mm Largo, pleasant to shoot and .38 Super, unpleasant to shoot. All function perfectly. But stay away from 9mm Luger, can't headspace on the rim due to the length and only thing holding it is the extractor. Hard on extractors. 0 -
Sorry, Rufe! --- It was the 9mm Bergmann No.6. See Edward C. Ezell... 0 -
quote:Originally posted by mgx
Sorry, Rufe! --- It was the 9mm Bergmann No.6. See Edward C. Ezell...
Wrong again! Bergmann No.6/Mars Cartridge is the same as 9mm Largo.
"Handguns of the World" by Edward C. Ezell, ISBN 0-8117-0816-0
Page, 5350
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