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Winchester Model 05

wanted
Can you tell me about the origin, manufacture date and value of the following: (this information stamped on the barrel)
Manufactured by the Winchester Repeating Arms Co. New Haven, Connectucut, USA. Self Loading Model 05 Pat. Aug 27 Dec 10 1901
Feb 25 1902 Feb 17 Dec 23 03
Serial No. 12564
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    My reference notes your rifle dates to 1905, just under 30,000 total manufactured, over 14 years.

    They were made early in the 20th Century. First large caliber semi-automatics Winchester produced. Produced in (2) calibers. 32 & 35 Winchester Self Loading.

    Value would be contingent on condition and originattly. If you were to post quality photos, we would be better able to give you a idea of it's value.

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  • Bert H.
    Hello wanted...

    More than likely it was manufactured in early 1906. I own one that has a serial number that is very very close to yours, and when I lettered it a number of years ago, it came back as being manufactured in March of 1906. The Cody Firearms Museum has the original factory ledgers for the first 29,078 Model 1905s made - http://www.bbhc.org/firearms/records.cfm

    Typical values for them are usually in the $200 - $450 range (depending upon the condition). This Model and its sibling Models, the 1907 & 1910, have not yet become a real significant collectors item within the Winchester collectors group, and due to the scarcity & expense of ammo, they are not favored by traditional shooters.

    The 35 W.S.L. is an anemic cartridge, and it is only marginally acceptable for deer at 50 yards (or less). It is not noted for being very accurate (mine will shoot 3" groups @50 yards). Due to the design of T.C. Johnson's simple blow-back action, the cartridge can NOT be improved upon by handloading. To do so would quickly damage the action. It also has a VERY BAD habit of spitting the empty brass ALL OVER the place when shooting it (making brass recovery a real chore). It always makes for a good conversation piece when I take it the my local shooting range, but everyone quickly clears out on my right side when I start shooting it.


    p.s Welcome to the forum[:)]

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • bobski
    which model was the 351 and 401 cal? how did they stack up?
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  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by bobski
    which model was the 351 and 401 cal? how did they stack up?


    The 351 was the Model 1907, 401 was the Model 1910.

    The Model 1907 was the only really successful version, it was made until the 1950's, with just under 60,000 produced.

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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by bobski
    which model was the 351 and 401 cal? how did they stack up?


    Bob...

    The 351 W.S.L. (Model 1907) is simply a longer version of the 35 W.S.L. Both were factory loaded with a 180 bullet, with the 35 W.S.L. having a nominal velocity of 1450 fps. The 351 W.S.L. has a nominal velocity of 1850 fps. However, neither cartridge is noted for accuracy. The only reason the 351 stuck around for as long as it did, is that Winchester somehow convinced many state police & prison systems that it was a good forearm for guard duty. The majority of them saw such use. As an interesting side note, the police agents that took down Clyde Barrow (Bonnie & Clyde fame) used MOdel 1907s to shoot poor old Clyde full of holes.

    The Model 1901 - 401 W.S.L. is significantly more potent than its smaller siblings. It was factory loaded with a 250 grain (versus the a 180 grain) and has a nominal velocity of 1900 fps. Again, the major drawback is its subpar accuracy.

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.


    As an interesting side note, the police agents that took down Clyde Barrow (Bonnie & Clyde fame) used MOdel 1907s to shoot poor old Clyde full of holes.


    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!


    Believe your wrong regarding the ambush of Bonnie & Clyde.

    To the best of my recollection, Frank Hamner and the other (5) LEO's were armed with a assortment of Remington Model 8's, Colt Monitors, Thomson Submachine Guns and Browning semi-auto shotguns. It's been a number of years since I last discussed their armament, but I don't recall them using any Winchester semi-autos.

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  • bobski
    what was that crack shot who use to shoot for winchester? he used one to speed shoot and do unbelievable things with a gun. i saw his tape years ago. the name is fuzzy.
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by bobski
    what was that crack shot who use to shoot for winchester? he used one to speed shoot and do unbelievable things with a gun. i saw his tape years ago. the name is fuzzy.


    Ad Topperwein

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • Sage
    Not sure how true this is but it sure sounds good. I purchased a 1907 ten years ago or so. There was a brass catcher attached. Was told that during WW1 the french air force use these rifles in their airplanes before the machine gun that shot between the propeller blades was developed, the catcher was to stop the hot brass from bouncing around cockpit. Thats what I was told.
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by Sage
    Not sure how true this is but it sure sounds good. I purchased a 1907 ten years ago or so. There was a brass catcher attached. Was told that during WW1 the french air force use these rifles in their airplanes before the machine gun that shot between the propeller blades was developed, the catcher was to stop the hot brass from bouncing around cockpit. Thats what I was told.




    Hello Sage... Yep, you were told correctly. Forgot to add... it wasn't just the French that got them. Winchester supplied them to all of the Allied flyers.

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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