Some clarification wanted re: M1, M1A
It has been suggested to me that I should buy a rifle (I'm a hand-gunner). The M1A was put forth.
I had planned to start with a Savage 11G, iron sites, .243.
(The model number just changed from 111G when Accu-Trigger came out)
So I punch M1A into google, and am overwhelmed by 51,400 hits. (0.22 seconds; moving slow tonight).
First off, the Springfield M1. It appears semi-automatic, but the gunshop guys told me I want to start with a bolt-action gun.
Is the gas operated rotating bolt as good/better than a manually-operated bolt?
THUMBHOLE STOCK - I read about them, see pictures, but there is not really a hole in the stock always, is there? Does this phrase include a stock cut in a manner to allow placement on the hand in a certain position?
If I get a manually-operated bolt-action rifle, doesn't that leave me room for one of the "prohibited" add-ons (under CA law, semi-auto + one of many add-ons makes it an assault weapon)
Thanks from a rifle newbie.
http://www.ccrkba.org/
CLICK HERE to see my auctions!
I had planned to start with a Savage 11G, iron sites, .243.
(The model number just changed from 111G when Accu-Trigger came out)
So I punch M1A into google, and am overwhelmed by 51,400 hits. (0.22 seconds; moving slow tonight).
First off, the Springfield M1. It appears semi-automatic, but the gunshop guys told me I want to start with a bolt-action gun.
Is the gas operated rotating bolt as good/better than a manually-operated bolt?
THUMBHOLE STOCK - I read about them, see pictures, but there is not really a hole in the stock always, is there? Does this phrase include a stock cut in a manner to allow placement on the hand in a certain position?
If I get a manually-operated bolt-action rifle, doesn't that leave me room for one of the "prohibited" add-ons (under CA law, semi-auto + one of many add-ons makes it an assault weapon)
Thanks from a rifle newbie.
http://www.ccrkba.org/
CLICK HERE to see my auctions!
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A google search may be more general in nature than you had planned. Looking for "M1A" will not only get you hits on M1A rifles, but also M1 rifles (something completely different), & a host of other items that have "M1" in their description. It sounds like you need to do a lot more research before you make a decision as to what kind of rifle you buy.
I suggest that you start by joining the National Rifle Association, & read every issue of the American Rifleman magazine that can be included with your membership. You might also want to subscribe to a commercial magazine, such as Guns & Ammo or Shooting Times. In addition to finding what kinds of rifles are currently being offered, you will also figure out what your needs are.
To answer your question directly, the US M1 Rifle is a clip-fed semi-automatic rifle firing .30-06 that was used by the US military in WWII & Korea; they can be bought from the govt directly at www.odcmp.org. The commercial manufacturer, Springfield, Inc, sells expensive reproductions that are lower in quality.
The US M14 Rifle was used by the US military in the early part of the Viet Nam War, & fires .308 Win from a detachable box magazine. Since this rifle was designed for full automatic fire, only M14-clones designed for semi-automatic fire can be sold today; Springfield, Inc has copyrighted the name "M1A" for their M14-clone, & it is a good rifle. I suggest that you browse Springfield, Inc's website.
Although at one time semi-auto rifles were not as accurate as bolt actions, todays technology has enabled the production of semi-auto rifles that are as accurate as most bolt actions.
Thumbhole stocks usually DO have a hole in the stock; their design was developed for precision target shooting, & permits a "pistol grip" hold that is more comfortable. These stocks were used on a number of imported military style rifles to convince the govt that they were intended for "sporting" purposes.
California's so-called assault weapon laws don't apply to bolt action rifles. However, there is rarely a sound reason for altering ANY gun to assault weapon configuration.
Neal0 -
Springfield M1A. Some people trash talk Springfields and say they dont' use all mil-spec parts anymore. blah blah. I've had zero problems with mine and over 1000 rounds thru it. It shoots like a dream. 1-1.5 MOA right out of the box (with Aussie surplus), had to adjust the sights like one click in elevation. I put a bipod on it and I can repeatedly hit small metal plates 10"x10" at 300 yards (maybe 8 of 10) with the stock peep sights.
Its the loaded "California" (Muzzle brake instead of flash hider) M1A.
Heres a link:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-loaded.shtml
MA9226
You can't go wrong.0 -
You could do worse than owning an m1a (which was, by the way, NOT originally designed as an "automatic-only" battle rifle); I carried one of these fine examples of the armorers art and learned all about its' nomenclature during 2 years at Military School.
It is an 11-pound, gas operated main battle rifle used with distinction since prior to VN, and still used today in action overseas, firing the 7.62Nato(308) at around 2800fps. There were a few hundred made to be select-fire, at which point the military discovered that it was uncontrollable, and discontinued tinkering with the idea.
There's a world of difference between the M1 and M1a; one fires a 30-06(M1), and the other fires .308. The M1Garand is indeed available thru the ODCMP for about $500, Danish models are a little more, and there are variants which go for much more; the M1a is currently manufactured (to mil-spec, btw) by Springfield Armory in several configurations ie, National Match, Super Match, etc., and can be had in .243 as well.
The rotating bolt design is used on the M1 Carbine, M1 Rifle, and the M1a; it is a bear to disassemble/reassemble without the proper tool/fixture.
Not too sure about the semi vs. bolt action laws in Kali; but if you want a good bolt action rifle that will last much longer than the Savage you're contemplating, try the Ruger model 77MKII or for a little more money (and darn well worth every cent), get a Sako.
Not knowing your wishes as to whether a semi or bolt action is best suited for your style of shooting, you should buy one of each, try 'em out, then sell the one you don't want.
If you know it all; you must have been listening.<br>WEAR EAR PROTECTION!0 -
being an avid m1 and m1a user and owner, i would tend to suggest you stay with your dealers suggestion and buy a bolt action gun. 243 is great round and shoots flat and fast. but, get one in 308 or 30-06 and learn the round and what it can do. then, switch to a gas gun in the same caliber later on. i think you will learn a lot of neat things about rifles, buy shucking them in one at a time rather than pop pop pop, gee, that was fun, gimmie more! i also think having a bolt gun would allow you a good base to learn scope shooting later on too. most garands and m1a's cant zero below 300 yds because the mount is too high. so...and probably as a surprise to many who know me...i say go with a bolt gun. make it 30-06, so you can switch to the garand later on!
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0 -
My 1st goal is target-shooting, 100 yards w/iron sights. I'm not in any rush; a bolt is fine. I'd like to be able to make the 300 yard shot down the road with a scope.
Silverbox gently reminded me I should own a rifle, and saw an M1A in my future.
If a semi-auto gas-operated rotating bolt is tricky to work on for a first-time rifle owner (I have a dozen handguns), and all it will get me is quicker firing rate, it is not worth it to me.
I'm not in any rush, and prefer to fire each shot and view the card with binoculars.
Will the .243 give me the 300-500 yard shot, or do I need more weight?
http://www.ccrkba.org/
CLICK HERE to see my auctions!0 -
Get a .308 bolt, if you want a bolt, bypass the .243.
You don't have to work on M1A's, cept to clean it.
Even if you did its not really any more complicated then say a .45 auto..0 -
As SilverBox said get the M1A, they are just to much fun to shoot. Got mine back in the early 80's (when they were under a 1000) also mine does not seem to be finiky about ammo, but it will resond to good reloads. 0 -
everyones really ramming the m1a down his throat! geesh, lets answer what he wants to know guys! the 243 is good to 300yds and a same hole accurate round at 100yds in a nice bolt rifle. i think you seriously should consider the 30-06 or 308. its a lot cheaper to shoot. the 243 is just a 24 cal in a necked down 308. heck, just go to 308 and get the extra benefit for 1/2 the cost of loading.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0 -
It's kinda funny, DWS is trashing the M1a on the general board! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by TrooperAllen469
It's kinda funny, DWS is trashing the M1a on the general board!
[:D][:D][:D][;)]0 -
My thanks to those who STAYED ON THE TOPIC before it gets locked.
How does 7mmRemMag stack up against 30-06?
Anyone have a link to a good cartridge comparison chart?
Found it: http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.rifle-cartridges-ballistics.html0 -
Just a few additional comments to the great wealth of information already provided. As a fellow resident of the Golden State and an
owner of an M1A, M1 Garand and Springfield '03 bolt action
rifle, unless you are a military afficianado or collector I think
the bolt action will best suit your purposes for highly accurate
target shooting and hunting if desired. I feel that the bolt
action is inherently more accurate which is why most but not all
of the military sniper rifles in use these days are bolt action
rifles, i.e. Remington 700, Barrett .50 Cal, etc.
I would also recommend the Ruger MK77 or the Remington 700. Both
are excellent bolt action rifles.
As far as the M1A or M14 Semi-Auto is concerned, there is not a
whole lot that can get you in trouble in CA other than a Flash
Hider or a large capacity magazine (over 10 rounds). I think that
the only type of stock available for these rifles is either the
wood, fiberglass or synthetic version of the standard military
stock. I've never seen a pistol grip stock or a folding stock
for the M14 semi-auto nor any other type of assault weapon add
ons. You would just be limited to a 10 round magazine and a
muzzle break instead of a flash hider.
The problem with thumbhole stocks in CA is that because they
have a hole in the buttstock to put your thumb through, the
gun-hating political types consider the grip a Pistol Grip which
is a no-no on a semi-auto centerfire rifle with a detachable
magazine as are flash hiders, barrel shrouds, bayonet mounts,
grenade mounts and folding stocks. Thumbhole stocks are perfectly
legal on bolt action rifles and lots of folks like them for
shooting comfort and accuracy on the better quality models.
Most of the assault weapon type add-ons are manufactured
primarily for semi-automatic rifles such as the AR-15, Ruger
Mini-14/30, AK-47, Uzi, etc. All of which are banned in CA
except for the Rugers and the Fab-10 which is a 10 round
fixed magazine AR-15 type receiver.
I also agree that your best choices in caliber would be .308
or 30-06 as there is a good variety of inexpensive surplus
ammo available in both calibers as well as high quality commercial hunting and target loads.
Lastly, you would probably find the bolt-action both easier to
clean and to maintain on a regular basis and as there are fewer
moving parts less prone to mechanical problems and malfunctions.
I collect both semi-auto and bolt action rifles and love 'em
all but I feel that unless you want a military look or a higher
rate of fire, the bolt action is the way to go, particulary in
CA where they will probably try to ban any type of semi-auto
centerfire rifle in the future.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Frisco Billy0 -
f. billy, good post thanks for your input. on the 7mm...its a fancy 308 that has great power at long distance. 7mm mags and 300 mags all are exceptional cartridges at 500+ yds. the back of any reloading manual has all the specs youd ever need to compare rounds. pick up a set of reloading manuals and go to town! regards....
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0
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