Ammo
Anyone know where to find 9.3x57 ammo?
Not having any luck
Not having any luck
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Where is the cheapest place to buy brass-cased, non-corrosive ammo for my ar-15 chambered in .223. I dont want any steal cased ammo. I also dont plan on reloading this round. I would like to buy half a case or a full case. FMJ or SP. Thanks for your time and help. 0 -
Hello most of the time but not allways if you see a cartdridge listed as a number then an X and then another number the first number is diameter of bullet and the second number is the case lenght .Thus in your example both have the same diam bullet and 39 vs 54 the 54 would hold more powder and be somewhat more powerful quote:"PRAISE THE HARDBALL GUN" 0 -
Hi and welcome to the forum!
While many may think your questions are too elementry, new shooters do find all the terminology confusing. I'll see if I can give you a top level answer to your question. And I recommend that you go to the library and pick up a couple books on the basics of firearms and ammunition. You can of course buy them, but why spend the money if you have a library nearby. If you don't go look in Amazon.com their prices are pretty reasonable.
Now the questions:
Diff. between 7.62x39 and 7.62x54: Both are 30 caliber, the difference is in the case length and shape, and this relates to the firearm(s) that will fire them. Each cartridge, rifle or pistol has identifying info. that relates to the chambering of the gun(s) that can fire those cartridges.
Bullet types: Way to broad a subject to try and cover here. Short answer is that FMJ means Full Metal Jacket. In civiliam ammo this is basically the hardest bullet that therefore has the least expansion and deepest penetration. Soft point is typically a lead or other soft metal tip on the bullet and that helps it expand, these bullets have more expansion than FMJ and somewhat less penetration. Hollow point, of the three mentioned has the greatest expansion and lesser penetration because the front part of the bullet is hollow and when the bullet enters soft tissue the hydraulic action of the tissue, blood, etc., aids in forcing the bullet to open up. Often times hollow point bullets have scoring lines that will control the direction or expansion pattern. Bullets with various tips are generally some form of expanding or semi-expanding round. Tips are either a different metal or even polymer and the tip is essentially intended to improve the ballistics (flight) while providing expansion.
There are many ... many bullet designs out there and most are marketed as the best you can get for doing whatever it is that you want to do, etc., etc. What you need to do from here is to take the brief basics offered above and study up so that you can recognize the different applications that a particular design would work best in.
Lastly, like most things in life, you never really quit learning in the shooting world. It's a good sport and I hope that you get many years of enjoyment from it.
If you only have time to do two things so-so, or one thing well ... do the one thing!0 -
The 7.62 x 39mm is the "30 caliber" round most commonly found in AK's and SKS's. It is a rimmed cartridge, actual bullet diameter is something like .310 or .311. Ruger chambered the Minithirty auto load rifle as well as a carbine length bolt rifle in it. I believe CZ also has a bolt rifle in 7.62x39. The 7.62x54R is also of Soviet design and a rimmed case but is most commonly found in the M44 and Mosin-Nagant rifles hitting the market the last couple years and most of the so called Draganov styled rifles. I am unsure of the actual bullet diameter, but think it to is .310 to.311. The two are NOT interchangeable. The 7.62x39 is typically on par with the
30-30 for performance, depending on loading and the 7.62x54R is somewhat comparable to the .303 British or a lighter loaded .308 in performance. The U.S. originated .308 is semirimmed case and uses a .308 diameter bullet. The 7.62x54R is from the turn of the last century Russia, the 7.62x39 was designed toward the middle or end of WWII in Russia. There are others more well informed than I and I bow to their study and correction where I am wrong.0 -
Welcome to the zoo, N2!
OK, to pick a couple of nits, but *not* on you . . . no one was *born* an expert, least of all me.
When you say "bullets," technically you are referring to the projectiles, not the cartridge entire (I mean, do you *really* want to sound like Peter Jennings and the DNC? [;)]).
Further, the correct term for the second cartridge is 7.62x54R as alle referred to it. This is actually a critical matter when referring to metric-designated cartridges so that the identification is accurate. While it does not pertain to this exact round, there are many otherwise identical metric cartridges whose sole difference lies in the head design. Thus it is vitally important to distinguish between the x99 (rimless), x99R (rimmed), x99SR (semi-rimmed), x99RB (rebated) or x99B (belted). Not all metric cartridges include all these variations and indeed most are only found in a single configuration, but failing to use the entire name is at best inaccurate.
With no disrespect to allechalley, there are several factual errors in his reply. The 7.62x39 is a rimless cartridge. The bullet diameter is nominally in the .310 - .311" range with a weight typically on the order of 120 - 140 grains. The 7.62x54R is a rimmed cartridge using .308" bullets, as do all(?) US ".30 caliber" rounds from the most common to the most obscure, and normally weigh 150 to 220 grains. One other correction to his comments, the 7.62x51 NATO (or .308 Winchester when in civilian clothes) is a rimless cartridge, not semi-rimmed. The semi-rimmed design is actually the least common head design (the reasons are a whole 'nother topic!) and are seldom encountered.
Now, outside of the terminology, another key difference is the case length. In metric terminology, the number after the "x" is the case length - one of the few areas where I find metric usage superior to the Imperial. So the x54R is about 140% the length of the x39.
OK, this is already a long answer and entire shelves of books have been written about the differences / advantages / disadvantages of various bullet designs. So . . . a very cursury overview follows. Full metal jacket (FMJ) bullets are intended to penetrate without much expansion, leaving a deep, clean wound cavity . . . these are required for military rounds under the terms of the Geneva Convention. Fully jacketed bullets are also used for other reasons - they often feed better in automatic pistols, varmint hunters and trappers may use this design to minimize pelt damage and those hunting large dangerous game (e.g., water buffalo) use them for the penetration through muscle and bone to reach vital organs. Other designs are intended, upon striking the target, to expand to some degree ranging from minimal to massive.
It would be completely inaccurate to say any particular design (with a few exceptions) has "good" or "bad" points, only that each has appropriate and inappropriate usages which vary depending on the purpose to which it is put. This is sort of like comparing crosscut, ripping and metal saws. All are used for the same general purpose and in a pinch can be used interchangeably, but each works best for a specific set of circumstances.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain) ". . . And liberals / demoRats" (me)0 -
Excellent reply, Iconoclast. Very readable.
N2shato,
Here is an article written by one of the Corbin Bros. about bullet making in general. It might get a little techincal in the descriptions but there are some good illustrations to go along with the verbage.
http://www.bulletswage.com/bullets.htm
http://www.bulletswage.com/intro.htm
Best.0 -
Iconoclast,
Great reply but one bone. The 7.62X54R can be found with .308 to .311" bullets, in my experience, with the textbook standard being the latter.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf0 -
Icon, I wasn't sure, as I stated as to bullet dia. on the 54R, but assumed (maybe incorrectly)that the Russkies wouldn't change bore diameter and change tooling to the inferior Americanski .308. Considering that the original Mosins were made in the U.S.A, that would indeed be possible. However, I truly should have known the 7.62x39 is a rimless and in my old age dithers, that the .225 winchester is about the only semirim(again, i'm probably wrong). As I said, I defer to wiser and more experienced hands. 0 -
7.62x54 is the oldest military cartridge, still in use since 1891.Mostly used as a machine gun round now as the tapered and rimmed case feeds and extracts easily. Bullet diameter is .310. Some manuals only show .308 because proper size bullets were not available like today,or the bullet company who wrote the manual doesn't make a correct bullet. The Mosin Nagants were made in Russia first.Remington and Westinghouse made rifles under contract for WWI ,these rifles were not shipped due to the Russian revolution in 1917.Two thirds of the Winchester 1895s made were in 7.62x54 and sold to the Russian government. The Ruger mini thirty(7.62x39)has a .308 bore to take advantage of the bullet selection for reloaders. King of Finland won the 1939 winter olympics with a M39 Mosin Nagant made by SAKO. 0
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