Care to age this Model 12
Ser. no. 1,021,xxx 18 groove, full choke 30", no Patent stamping on barrel, numbers match, 2 3/4 "
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Welcome to the forum talltimber. Actually, according to "Riffle" this is a war time gun, 1943, began with s/n 1000251, ending that year with 1034749. Regards Dave 0 -
Talltimber;
Sounds like a war years gun to me also. I have one SN 103995X 30in MOD that I purchased from a retired Navy armourer on the west coast. He said it was in his bases armoury since 45 and he purchased it in the 60s before he retired....How long have you owned yours...what condition is it in...have any idea of its history?? As you can tell I like model 12s with a real soft spot for war years guns...
gunut0 -
Most of the SN info on model 12s are just [un]educated guesses because the records were lost in some kind of disaster at the factory; but with military marked riot/trench guns along with WW2 marked arial training guns being serial numbered well past the 1,ooo,ooo mark and some sketchy remaining ww2 records it is now assumed that war year guns went up to around 1,050,000 or so "but thats not carved in stone"[waffle]... [8)]
gunut0 -
quote:Originally posted by mark christian
I'm probably looking at the wrong set of numbers or have missed out on a slight variation somehwere along the line, but here is what I have in two of my Winchester guides for Model 12 serial numbers assigned at the end of the year:
1942- 958303
1943- 975640
1944- 975727
1945- 990004
1946- 1029152
Mark T. Christian
Hello Mark...
If those serial number guides you have were written by Madis or Fjestad (who simply copied Madis' work), then they are immediately suspect. I will reiterate this fact... George Madis' Winchester serial number to DOM cross reference documents are INCORRECT at least 50% of the time[V]. Other Winchester authors such as Dave Riffle (who actually took the time to properly research his topic), or Herbert Houze, are much more accurate as it applies to researched serial number to DOMs.
Old George was a really nice man (I personally met him on several occasions), but he was prone to putting his "opinions" into the text of his books instead of conducting detailed research. Additionally, a LOT of new information has surfaced in the last 25 - 30 years (from the time George wrote his last book).
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
To add more credence to Riffle, (as I stated earlier) the 1000000th. Md 12 was presented to General Henry H. Arnold on Dec. 15th 1942, He was the Chief of the Army Air Forces. I stand by what "Riffle" states in his book, talltimbers Md 12 was made in 1943.
Regards Dave0 -
Thanks for the replies guys. I thought my post had been deleted. I hadnt expected this many posts in such a short time.[:D] I really like these old guns. My grandfather has a sixteen that he has hunted with for years. I suspect his is a thirties or earlier model. I dont remember his number but I do remember it having the patents on the right side. I have just purchased this gun for 350. I suppose that is probably not a smoking deal, but for this area, it is a GOOD deal. Model 12's in almost any condition are going for 400 to 550. I have recently decided to put a neat collection together of a set of 12's, if I can find them. Not many twenty's around. I dont know for sure what else has been made. .410's or 28's? Anyhow, thanks for the interest[:D] 0 -
talltimber: FTY 28ga guns, start around $3500. The 410ga is a Model 42, they start around $600. and go up fast!! This is an expensive hobby. I recommend you buy George Maddis' book "The Model 12" or Dave Riffles book "The Greatest Hammerless Repeating Shotgun ever Built". If you want a book that covers all pre-64 shotguns, buy Ronald W. Stadt's book, "Winchester Shotguns and Shotshells". All books have great info.
Side Note: Winchester stopped putting the patent dates on the barrels about 1940/41 time frame.
Regards Dave0
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