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  • 1KYDSTR
    I would personnally go for it, but you will want to consult with Bert H.; our resident Winchester expert, or Winchestersonly as well. The original, overall condition makes it look like an attractive idea to me!

    "When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
    "Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
    "History is written by winners"(Patton)
    "You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
    "There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)
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  • Bert H.
    Hello Hugh,

    That is a Model 87 low-wall Winder Musket (the final variant of the Model 1885). All of them (about 12,750) were made between January 1918 and June 1920, with roughly 11,800 of them being furnished to the U.S. Goverment by contract (and indicated with the "U S" and flaming ordnance bomb). The one pictured does not have a spring clip to hold the barrel band in place, so it was made sometime after May/June of 1918.

    Nearly all of them were factory marked for 22 SHORT (approximately 95% of the total production), and they are not nearly as rare as the fellows trys to intimate in his ad. The real oddity about this particular model, is that even though it is marked "22 SHORT", it will chamber and fire both the 22 Long and 22 Long Rifle cartridges with no problems. Winchester actually reamed the chamber the same length for all of the Model 87s regardless of which 22 rimfire cartridge it as maked for. The only difference was in the twist rate of the rifling. Those that are marked "22 SHORT" have a slightly slower twist rate, and they may or may not shoot as well when using standard 22 Long Rifle ammo. If you use the high-vel 22 LR ammo, they will nearly always shoot good in due to the lighter bullets used for the high-vel ammo.

    The fellow also states that the bore is worn due to "corrosive ammo". That is an ignorant/false statement. By 1918, 22 rimfire ammo was no longer corrosive. The most likely cause of the worn rifling was the large number of rounds fired through it while serving as a military training firearm, and the frequent (and not always proper) cleaning methods it was exposed to during its service life. The military used steel cleaning rods, and the fellows using them were not always real careful about how they used them. Since this particular Model's bore was accessible from the breech end, that is the end that the cleaning rod entered most often, and it is the primary reason that the breech end of the bore is worn.

    $850 is a fair price for that Winder Musket... not a steal, but not bad either. I picked up one in (in slightly better shape and with a near mint bore) at Little John's June 2004 auction for $844.76 out the door (I actually tried to get two of them, but the first one went too high). If you pick this one up, please get in touch with me and let me know what the serial number is so that I can add it to my book.



    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • Maggie Drawers
    Bert - Thanks for the great, and detailed, info.

    I'm going to pass on this rifle. So, if you or anyone else cares to go for it feel free. You won't be snatching it out of my hands.
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