Laminated Hardwood Stock? REDUX... PICS added
No, D&D, I'm not kidding. Go do some research and reading, check the ballistics then pick one up and shoot it for yourself. Better yet, take a run over to Varminthunters.com and see for yourself. There are lots of posts regarding the 17 HMR and lots of them come with visual proof, also. Then let's hear your sarcasm. Shoot one first, don't just parrot what someone else has written. It is within the potential parameters that plains scout alludes to, besides being easier to get in and out of a truck with and carrying on an ATV. Removing a magazine is a simple safety precaution and having a spare speeds up reloading when you run the first one dry. The only place that the Hornet could possibly overshadow the 17 HMR would be in remaing energy when you use heavier bullets. But then there is a compromise with the effective range of the Hornet. Then, too, you have to contend with the poor accuracy of the 77/22.
I was trying to add to my post on the original topic when it got locked by the hair trigger of our ever watchful Captain! Oh well, I'll try to capture the essence of what is now lost in the myriad of electrons.
Plywood is plywood, no matter what color you dye it! Laminated wood stocks are ugly and there is nothing that can be done about it. The old saw of 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear' certainly holds true in this case. Laminated stocks are sow's ears and plywood is ugly. You might get some stability and maybe some weatherproofing if you add it yourself in the form of a proper finish and proper bedding to eliminate compression. But they are not as good as the quality of professionally laid up fiberglass stocks.
Insofar as trashing synthetics is concerned, there is a division that should be brought into play. Synthetics are of the ilk like the Tupperware stocks that the OEM's use on their factory rifles and several other versions that are cheaply made and of little value. The Fiberglass stocks of professional manufacturers such as McMillan, Rimrock and Robertson Composites are light years ahead of the low quality synthetics. They are stable, weatherproof and abuse resistant beyond what synthetic or plywood stocks will stand up to in rough use. See what the various branches of the military use for their sniper rifles. Go to several different forms of competitions and try to find a plywood stock. Well, you might find one... but generally and consistantly speaking, shooters that want to be competitive, use the high quality fiberglass stocks. Bill Shehane is one of the very few that has won a competition with a laminate stock. But even he sells fiberglass stocks to stay up with the rest of the market.
Best. (climbing down from the soap box and donning a really thick, fireproof suit)
I was trying to add to my post on the original topic when it got locked by the hair trigger of our ever watchful Captain! Oh well, I'll try to capture the essence of what is now lost in the myriad of electrons.
Plywood is plywood, no matter what color you dye it! Laminated wood stocks are ugly and there is nothing that can be done about it. The old saw of 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear' certainly holds true in this case. Laminated stocks are sow's ears and plywood is ugly. You might get some stability and maybe some weatherproofing if you add it yourself in the form of a proper finish and proper bedding to eliminate compression. But they are not as good as the quality of professionally laid up fiberglass stocks.
Insofar as trashing synthetics is concerned, there is a division that should be brought into play. Synthetics are of the ilk like the Tupperware stocks that the OEM's use on their factory rifles and several other versions that are cheaply made and of little value. The Fiberglass stocks of professional manufacturers such as McMillan, Rimrock and Robertson Composites are light years ahead of the low quality synthetics. They are stable, weatherproof and abuse resistant beyond what synthetic or plywood stocks will stand up to in rough use. See what the various branches of the military use for their sniper rifles. Go to several different forms of competitions and try to find a plywood stock. Well, you might find one... but generally and consistantly speaking, shooters that want to be competitive, use the high quality fiberglass stocks. Bill Shehane is one of the very few that has won a competition with a laminate stock. But even he sells fiberglass stocks to stay up with the rest of the market.
Best. (climbing down from the soap box and donning a really thick, fireproof suit)
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No comment on the .12 or the .22's, don't shoot either.
As for laminates being ugly, they are not as pretty as fine walnut with lots of figure, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I like laminates just fine. Synths may be functional in their best versions, but I have never seen a pretty one.0 -
I HAVE shot the 17 HMR and still prefer the Hornet. I have seen the effect of crosswinds on that little 17 gr. bullet and it just can't buck the wind like has been claimed. Speaking of retained energy...the Hornet (and especially the K versions) will kick its' butt out past 100 yds.! I use Sierra 40 gr. Varminters in my hornet and they are surprisingly explosive on groundhogs at 100 yds+. Also, unless I miss my gues the 17 HMR will never be reloadable/tailorable and that will reduce its' utility in comparison with the Hornet/Bee.
Having said all this I DO see a really good range of uses for the 17 HMR...but mostly inside of 100 yds or dead still days. I also am fairly excited about the new HMR. I see alot of uses for it and of course an easier adaptability to existing actions; couple that with the lower price and I think they have another winner, perhaps even more of a viable round in the long run than the original!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
(plywood IS plywood)
Is it LIVE or is it Memorex?
Then there is the only laminate stock that I could actually get used to:
(look close at the bottom of the butt)
http://www.serengetistockworks.com/0 -
So if you don't like laminates, don't buy one. 0 -
In the Mid 60's, prior to synthetics, I built up a custom Pre-64 in 243. Used a Hoffman bbl and a 12X Redfield. Fit and finished a Fagen Varminter Walnut on Walnut laminate. Absolutley beautiful.I would do it again if so inclined.I have a couple synthetics, but they don't hold a candle to that laminate stock.
Hi Dale...
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob0
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