annealing
I've heard a bit about the process, but never really paid attention to it, mainly because most of my reloading was with straight-wall pistol brass.
Could someone please explain the process in detail and give me the pros and cons?
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Could someone please explain the process in detail and give me the pros and cons?
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Need information on the PROPER PROCEEDURE for annealing brass for forming/reforming. All info will be greatly appreciated.
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Vet0 -
There are differing opinions. What I do is stand the case in about 1/5" of water, and heat simultaneously from both sides with two torches in a dimly lit room until the case just starts to glow at the neck/shoulder area, then I push it over into the water. This ensures even heating and fast cooling.
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Depending on what cases you are forming, the brass may not need annealing. I have formed 8x57 from 30-06 and 30 Herrett from 30-30 and it worked just fine the way the brass was.
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Hornady markets an annealing kit. Have one, but haven't used it yet.
My old method is to hold the case with a set of pliers, hold a propane torch at a 45 deg angle, heat the neck/shoulder juncture while rotating the case until the first hint of red appears and then drop the case into a gallon coffee can mostly filled with cool water.
Never had a problem with any of my home annealed cases.
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There are many ways to do it. I have heard of the way Jonk described, but have never used it myself.
I cast my own bullets. The way I do it is to dip the mouth and shoulder of the case into the molten lead holding the head of the case by hand. When the head starts getting hot, I drop it into a can of water. You will NEVER ruin a case by making it too soft!
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I do it with the molten lead,dip the case till it is hot enough that the lead will not stick to the case and drop it in a bucket of water.Do not get the water near the lead because it will cause the hot lead to explode in all directions.Use caution. 0 -
Ditch the water and just heat the neck till it changes color using a propane torch.
It will be soft enough.
Water just makes a mess for you to clean up.
I use a Lee case holder for the size case that I heat. Put it in a drill and turn it on, then drop it in a pan to cool. It dosent take very long and your sizing or forming without that water cleanup.
Try it, you will like it.
Bolt
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quote:Originally posted by bolthandle
Ditch the water and just heat the neck till it changes color using a propane torch.
It will be soft enough.
Water just makes a mess for you to clean up.
The reason water is used is to stop the heat from moving to the lower part of case and annealing it. If you anneal the web and head of a case you are creating a situation that could be dangerous.0 -
MP:Anyone getting the case that hot to soften the head and web area of (rifle cases) shouldnt be doing it at all, anyway.
As for annealing of pistol brass, why, its cheap enough to buy new with out doing it. Unless its obsolete that one is making, then the water way would be the way to go.
The necks dont need to be heated till they are cherry red which can cause problems with the heads.(rifle cases)
Brass heated that hot will collapse when pushed into the form die or even a full length sizer.
I have used the water method on rifle brass and have not seen any difference, thats why I dont use water anymore.
If ones concerned about this, then use the water way.
Bolt
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WWIIVet,
Since you stated that all information would be appreciated, I thought that another technique should be presented to help cover more of the options. This is an excerpt from an article by Ken Howell with a link to the entire article.
Quick, uniform, consistent application of high heat is the key to good annealing. When the brass around the mouth reaches a temperature of about 660 to 665 degrees Fahrenheit, its surface becomes light blue. This is as hot as you want to let it get. If you let the color run too far toward the other end of the case, you can ruin the head by making it too soft. If you let the color on the neck go beyond light blue, and the shine disappears, you're on the edge of ruining the case, and you may already have gone too far. If you let the case get red, it's a goner.
But depending on getting the color just right is too loose and iffy to suit me. I prefer and recommend relying on something more dependable than personal color perception. The most reliable case thermometer I know is a 650 or 660 degree temperature-sensitive crayon called a temp stick. I'll describe how to use it in a moment.
The hot, small flame of a torch is the only heat source you can rely on to give you the quick, local heat you need for selectively annealing the neck without heat-softening the base. High heat brings the neck and shoulder up to annealing temperature quickly, while the base end is still safely cooler; lower heat lets the base end get too hot while the neck and shoulder are getting just hot enough. Therefore, safe neck annealing takes high heat and a surprisingly short time.
Temperature-sensing crayons allow close temperature control. Any well stocked welding supplier has them or knows where to get them. McMaster-Carr stocks two kinds, and I hope a few handloader suppliers like Huntington's will stock them if there's enough demand for them. The mark made by one kind of crayon melts at the rated temperature, plus or minus one degree. The other kind leaves a yellow mark that changes to red-brown at the rated temperature and tolerance.
The 650-degree crayon, which melts at about 10 to 15 degrees below annealing temperature, is Number 3261K449 in my old McMaster-Carr catalog, at a nominal price of $7.80. Be sure to specify crayon when you order. McMaster-Carr also sells 650-degree temperature-sensing pellets under the same catalog number. These pellets are for other applications and aren't adaptable to case annealing. The 660-degree crayon changes color at approximately the correct annealing temperature (within 2 degrees or so). Its catalog number is 5960K71 and sells for $6.20. Both come with aluminum pocket holders.
Which crayon is better? For annealing only a short area such as just the neck and not much lower on the case, the 660-degree color-change crayon is probably better. When the color changes a bit lower down, the upper neck should be just about the right amount hotter. Annealing a longer area means there's a wider range of temperatures between the mouth of the case and the lower edge of the annealing area. The 650-degree melting crayon allows a range of about 10 to 15 degrees Fahrenheit. You could use this crayon to mark the lower edge of the area to be annealed, or the other crayon to mark the upper portion of the annealing area.
http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/jun96cases.html
I thought that you might also be interested in a couple of other methods of sensing temperatures when annealing. I know people that use these 2 techniques and they are happy with the temperature resolution.
Tempilaq and Tempilstik:
http://www.tempil.com/TempilaqG.htm
http://www.tempil.com/Tempilstik.htm0
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