Winchester 61 value?
What might I expect as a value for a Winchester model 61 #1641xx circa 1951 in 98% plus condition?
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Good morning win62. If you are accurate in your grading at 98%, that would have an approx. value of $600. NOTE if there is a "WRF" on the barrel just in front of the receiver add another 200%!! Depending where you are in the US, and how you try to sell a gun, meaning locally, or here at auction can make a big difference on how much you may get. Regards Dave 0 -
Hello Win62...
I just witnessed (yesterday at Little John's June firearms auction) (5) near mint Model 61s sell. The least expensive one of the bunch went for $1400, and two of them brought over $2000... before the 12% buyers premium. The people who bought them were not collectors, but were dealers (which means that they are actually worth more than the auction price).
Dave (and any other interested Winchester people)... the Blue Book (and all of the other price guides for that matter) are simply not accurate sources of information when it comes to the "collectable" Winchester Models. You have to actually see them being sold on a regular basis to get a feel for what they are truly worth. I have the very good fortune of being able to attend all of Little John's auctions (the Phoenix Club is 5 minutes from where I live), and I also attend all three of the shows at Reno, and Las Vegas each year. I record (in my notes) the selling prices for most of the Winchesters sold at those auctions, then I later see those exact same guns being sold at Reno and Las Vegas (for a fair bit more I might add). The Blue Book is simply WAY under what the real street values are for many of the desirable Winchester Models.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Bert: I put several caveats in my original statement:
1) The accuracy of the grading at 98%
2) Does the barrel have "WRF" on it? If so add %200
3) Geographic location
In your reply you state: "Near Mint", to me that's greater than 98%. What you don't say about the guns you saw sold at auction is:
1) Single marking for the 22 cal. meaning ie: 22 LR some are marked LR, L, and S some only have a single marking, which commands a 25% premium.
2)Grooved receivers, command a 30% premium
3) "WRF" commands a 200% premium
4) The Md 61 with the octagon barrel is in a category all it's own. Along with the Md 61 Magnum
When I made may guesstimate, it was based on the info provided.
Which you threw out, and said I've seen them go for more, well so have I.
As far as going to gun shows that's only interesting. I attend them too. I also see the same people dragging the same guns to show after show because they have an inflated asking price. I also know that some dealers have a clientele wish list, and they look for specific guns regardless of price. I've also seen at public auction, people (both dealers and private partys) bid way over what I've seen the exact same gun go for. Or know where one is located on the net in far better condition, for much less.
As far as the "Blue Book", or the "GunTraders" pricing books go, they are a snap shot in time. Meant only as a reference and a starting place.
What I do see almost everyday, looking at the auction sites on the net and over 20 dealers sites, is a large variation in prices, for the same models. If you are an impluse buyer, you usually spend too much, period.
In summary, the fact that you saw some Md 61s sell for $1400 to over $2000. without saying what they really were, you can do better.
For the ones that sold over $2000. You suppose that maybe they had "WRF" on them? Meaning that my original statement of $600 plus the 200% premium, ($1800) that would be in the ball park, wouldn't it?
Regards Dave0 -
WOW! That's a lot. Thanks for the information. I also have a model 61 Octagon Barrel "WRF ONLY" rifles in about 95+%. 0 -
there was a 61 NIB made in 1962 (if I remember correctly) in the gunlist for $2100. Don't know if it ever sold or not I thought it would since NIB 61'S arent' easy to find but the guy had it listed for several issues so it obviously didn't sell quickly at that price. I usually see them in the gunlist for about $500-600 in the condition you described. 0 -
Dang... my 61's have become my good friends!!!![8D]I wonder what my 80% Oct Rutledge smoothbore is worth????
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob0 -
Hello Dave...
I guess that I could have been a bit more clear in my first response, but I was trying to keep it short. However, since we are on this topic, here is the straight scoop...
First, there is virtually no difference between a 98% and a "near Mint" gun. A "Mint" gun is 100%, and one that is "near Mint" is something that is slightly less than 100%... i.e. 98%. I defy anyone to accurately explain to me what the difference is between a 98% and a "near mint" gun.
Second, a Model 61 chambered in 22 WRF that is in 98% condition is NOT worth, and does NOT bring a 200% premium over any other Model 61 in 98% condition... regardless of what the Blue Book says. A grooved receiver Model 61 in 98% condition does not bring a 30% premium over a 98% condition non-grooved receiver Model 61 (all other things be the same). Model 61s with an octagon barrel in 98% condition do not bring a 100% premium over a round barreled Model 61 in 98% condition (as the Blue Book suggests they do). What I am trying to get you to understand is this... do NOT pay attention to what the Blue Book is telling you... it simply is NOT accurate. The PRIMARY determining factor in the value of the Models 1890, 1906, 61, and 62 is the condition and originality, and yes, there are some variances in values for the rarer features or caliber, but not NEARLY as much as the Blue Book trys to lead you to believe. The same holds true for all the same guns if they are in 50% condition versus 98+%.
For what it is worth, none of the (5) model 61s that sold on Wednesday had grooved receivers, nor were any of them 22 WRFs. Two were marked for 22 Long Rifle (single caliber marking), two were "22 Long Shot Only", and one was marked for 22 Short, Long, and Long rifle. All of these rifles sold for considerably more than what the Blue Book says, and they were bought by dealers (and some very astute dealers at that).
For high-end Winchesters, there really is no difference in value based on regions. Due to the internet, and the ever decreasing number of quality gunshows, they bring the same prices regardless of whether they are being sold at the Tulsa show, Denver, Las Vegas, Reno, Cody, Houston, or Baltimore. Most of the top dealers I know travel to all of those shows, and their prices do not change because that are at a different local. I see several hundred Winchester firearms sold each and every year, and what I see for the most part does NOT match what the Blue Book lists them at. Very few truly high-end Winchesters are sold on internet auction sites such as this one, and what does get sold is not indicative of the real street value. In reality, most of what gets listed on the internet auction sites is way over described and over priced, and that is why those guns languish on the auction pages forever. Those same people also drag the same old guns over and over to the same gun shows too.
Finally, as of this evening, I will be incognito for the next two weeks (going to Alaska for my annual fishing trip... and there is no internet access where I am going[:D]).
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Hi Dave,
In your opinion then what is a Model 61 22WRF only, 24 inch Octagan barrel in 95% condition worth? I have one and would like to know. It is a first year issue serial# 2xxx.
Maybe you could tell me who to contact to get a true appraisal on this piece.
Hope your Alaska trip was fun!
Jack0 -
quote:Originally posted by wm69
there was a 61 NIB made in 1962 (if I remember correctly) in the gunlist for $2100. Don't know if it ever sold or not I thought it would since NIB 61'S arent' easy to find but the guy had it listed for several issues so it obviously didn't sell quickly at that price. I usually see them in the gunlist for about $500-600 in the condition you described.
Win62 - You got some powerful good info on your posting! A NIB 61 S,L,LR just went for about $1276.00 on gunbroker the past few days. It was, indeed, 100% condition from what I could tell bny the pics and description.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Hangfire
Dang... my 61's have become my good friends!!!![8D]I wonder what my 80% Oct Rutledge smoothbore is worth????
Love them Pre-64's!!!!-Bob
Bunches! [^]0
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