Shotgun shell detonating ?
Someone told me tonight that a shotgun shell with too little powder is more dangerous than a shell with too much powder. He said that too little powder will explode instead of burn. We were discussing a guy at our local range who's K-Gun blew up on him a couple of years ago. I always thought he must have had a double charge, and even that should not blow apart a K-frame. This guy said that just the opposite is true, and that a small amount of powder will detonate and explode. Has anyone ever heard of this before?
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quote:too little powder will explode instead of burn
Hummmmm.... I wonder why muzzleloading shotguns don't blow up with ta lite powder charge?
Some people are like Slinkies . . .. not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs0 -
Let's start from the beginning. All gunpowder burns, and they all burn at different rates. Sometimes the differences in burning rates are not discernible to the human senses. The burning rates and the confines of the chamber provide the pressures to propel the bullet (shot) out of the gun. To little and the bullet lodges in the barrel, to much and the gun explodes.
To me a K frame and a K gun are different guns. A K frame is a Smith medium frame, and a K gun is a Kreghoff.
Your mileage may vary.
"If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."0 -
Haven't heard of this phenomena in shotguns, but very much so in revolvers. Not saying it couldn't happen, just haven't heard a discussion in regards to shotguns. 0 -
Hello black and smokeless powder are both propellants BUT black is not progressive and smokeless is. Black burns at same rate period. it can blow up guns if there is an air space between powder charge and shot load or bullet. Smokeless burns faster as pressure goes up. you can OVERLOAD and blow guns but there is also a type of blowup that happen from VERY LIGHT loads. It can't be done every time in a LAB but so many good reloaders have had it happen that it is not a urban legend. 0 -
Alpine, you ae right. When I said K-frame I meant the frame on a Krieghoff. I saw the letter the guy got from Krieghoff. They sent his gun pieces to a metalurgy lab, and they tested it for strength. They found that it should have been good to some extreme pressure (I think it was 70,000 psi) Krieghoff blamed it on the guys reloads and would not stand behind the gun. I can see extreme pressures if another wad was lodged in the barrel, but otherwise I can't see how a shell would blow up a gun. 0 -
I have seen wads stuck in barrel merely blown out harmlessly on the next shot. The only time I have seen damage to a gun is where there was to much/wrong type of powder.
I would hate to have been holding that K gun when the reciever went. They have such a strong reciever it would take a lot of misuse/or an instant of neglect to destroy a reciever.
Your mileage may vary!
"If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."0 -
what you are refering to are known as squibs. they go by other names as : piffers, poopers, whizzers, etc... i routinely load undercharged loads for my students to experience. i load: a) primer only no powder on a fully loaded shell, b) primer, powder, a wad with no shot, c) primer, powder, a little shot left(a leaker), d) dead primer. in every case, ive never had a gun blow up. ive had hulls seperate from the base and fly out with no problem. the comment from the squad is usually more damaging than the shot was. i/e: "you cheap skate! buy new shells!"[:D] to have a foreign object in front a full load is dangerous. its why i teach students to recognize one so they can unload and clear the bbl. any unusual report should be an automatic cease fire and check bore.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, former navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0 -
if a load is too light the pressure wave will not move the bullet but will instead be reflected back. If it then meet the next pressure wave it can lead to a pressure spike similar to the effect shaped charges have.
respect for the rights of others is peace (Benito Juarez)0 -
fyi....we are talking shotgun shells.[8)] 0 -
We could be talking detonation, an explosive effect having many times the burning rate of the gunpowder when normally loaded. The phenomonon of reflecting and reinforcing wavefronts suggested by Brecht has occured in rifles using a very small charge of slow powder in sharply bottlenecked cases like the 25-06.
You may note in some reloading manuals for some powders, the warning "THESE LOADS MUST NOT BE REDUCED".
I've read lately that AA#5 was involved in several pistol KABOOMS.0 -
and in closing and as per original post...the question was for a shotgun shell. bullets were not part of the thread. bigggg diference! [:p] 0 -
"Ahhhh gun go boom"...I know that the MOOSEYARD said he saw the letter, but more likely the letter said the steel tested to a value that would hold upto 70,000 PSI. When dealing with shot shells, several different measurements are used to determine pressure, and PSI is the least (also pistol/rifle pressures)such as CUP or Copper units of pressure and others. (please forgive me, I don't have my reference books in front of me)But as I recall PSI is a volume measurement that does not directly relate to explosive reaction and must be converted, but measurement of pieces of copper or other materials us used for a comparitive basis, by measuring how much the material compresses in a pressure gun, when the shell is fired.
That is why all (underline all) powder manufacturers say, never exceed the recommened loading of known powders by loading weight, pressures listed with loads that have been tried are calculated,cause you can blow up even the most expensive gun.
The powder Mfg's recommend the loads because they tried them, not just guessed, because in order to actually test how much a gun barrel can withstand, you gotta blow it up, and then you got none.
The steel in K-GUNS are no more durable than that of a Remington pump, well maybe not a Remington, but for sure those guns of other similar costs. My voice of experience (who had a shotgun slug come through the side of a 12 ga. chamber plugged with (believe)snow/ice a number of years ago, nearly missing my thumb, says no, less powder (of same used in regular loads) will not cause higher pressures, but say change out bullseye for Greendot, guess what? in equal weight volumes, the bullseye being faster burning generates higher presures peaks, but still depends upon the weight of the object it must move (bullet/shot charge, etc.).
Learn from the mistakes of others, for you won't live long enough to make them all yourself....0
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