300 ultra mag-overrated?
I was recently shopping for a Sako 300 Win. Mag. stainless-synthetic when a friend in a large metro city came across an ultra mag on close out. I acquired it and as I have been reloading forever I was set to work up a load. Only have one book new enough to cover it and noted it produced about 100 fps with 12-l5 extra grains of powder over the Win. Mag. which I load for. This does not make sense to me. Any explainations? Also, would this be a good gun to keep NIB? If I did shoot it would it be wise to have the para-medics standing by? It must kick pretty good.
0
-
Dog,
The advantage of the RUM(not saum) is gained by: with a longer barrel 25,26 even 28 inches and heavier bullets(180-200grainers).
If you're shootin' a 24 incher and 165's your results won't be very impressive.
email me at bill@ArmChairHunter.com0 -
ammo is a buying condition for me. You can get .300 Win Mag anywhere in the world. The is a wide variety of producers and you can with luck get a good deal.
Thats is not the case with the ultra mag
respect for the rights of others is peace (Benito Juarez)0 -
congrats, you have reached the 'over bore' zone. adding more powder only gives minimal increase in speed. in .30 cal max. (practical)vel./gn of powder is reached between the .300 win.mag. and the .300 weatherby mag. 0 -
I personnaly feel that the "craze" these short mags have produced will turn out to be something of a flash in the pan, but only time will really tell. As mentioned, these rounds will generally only perform well in the longertubes with a heavier bullet, and I wonder if the extra powder capacity is (and thus consumption) really worth the extra fps. It has been known for some time that a shorter, fatter case is likely the most efficient way to go, but if you look at cartridges like the .308 x "1 1/2 Barnes, you will see that the real efficiency comes with MUCH heavier bullets that lope along about the speed of sound or a little below. This gives the added benefit of sound supressing the bullet and also it retains proportionately MUCH more power downrange at a MUCH lowered amount of powder. At the muzzle, the .308 Winchester (7.62 x 51 NATO) massivelt outperformes the Barnes number, but once you've extrapolated out to 600 yds. the 308 Win and the 308 Barnes, starting with as much as 45% different muzzle velocities and foot lb. ratings, are suddenly within 10% of one another. This is some pretty esoteric stuff, but certainly proved out by the scientific research.
there will doubtless be many fine condition UM's out there (some even NIB) in 20 years, but I don't think they've quite got it right yet, and the UM's are a bit of a compromise on the way to a truely more efficient Barnes type cartridge. Add in the "where the heck can I buy this stuff" factor and it makes the older rounds like the 300 Win mag. the better buy for the forseeable future. Since you reload, I feel you have the added advantage of rolling your own so it makes this a bit less of a concern to you, but keeping that fine Sako in NIB condition may not be the best thing to do...shoot it and enjoy it! Lots of choices to make here! good luck!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
As said before " overbore " makes any value here minamal in the 30cal. But, if you want to keep it and shoot it consider having the barrel bored out to a caliber that can really use the extra powder. Personally I'm a fan of 8mm and 35cal wildcats, but the 338RUM and the 375RUM turn in some good numbers. 0 -
I've hunted with both calibers. I am impressed with the 300WnMg and I am IMPRESSED with the 300UM.
Last Nov., Deer hunted in Nebraska Sandhill's Valentine area. My son has a rem/700/300um and I hunted with my Marlin stainless 30-30. Ranchers told us disease decimated the Deer population in that area and they were'nt lying. Saw only two Does and not much Deer sign.
While driving in a valley my son said lets see how far we can shoot this 300UM at a target aiming dead on. We did.
We spotted a target with a clear white sand back stop 1/3 up from the bottom of a Sand hill.
He aimed at it: 1st shot a hit in the target zone; I shot hit low. He shot again in the target zone..[:(!][:(!].. I shoot and missed[:(].
He's laughing so I hide his ammo.
Anyway I cleared the odometer and we drove towards the spot we shot at. We came to a fence -which we did not see while shooting- no gate. The spot was another 150+ yards on the other side of the fence.
My odometer reading 4.3 tenths of a mile!!!!!!!!!!
Recoil about the same with a 3- 3.5" shot gun.
To say the least....I'm IMPRESSED with the 300UM0 -
Discussing the differences between cartridge performance reminds me of my brothers friend, Tommy.
Hunted for years on the ground, always complained he was cold, never sat still, and used a 30-06.
Never got a buck. shot only one doe.
Shot two deer from my tree stand that walked by him, via 7mm Wby Mag.
Next year, he went out bought a 300 Win Mag, new boots,AND a tree stand.
Gave his 30-06 to his boy.
Tommy shot his first buck, an 8 pointer first day, and a doe in antlerless season.
Tommy now thinks that's the magical gun.
Tommy's boy eventually shot one too. With Dad's unmagical '06.
Points being, it's not usually the cartridge, or even the gun.
But the shooter having to 'know' how the 'tool' will respond to what it's directed to do.
Regarding the Remington RUM ("Rummy" is my name for them), it will perform, but it's over sold, and Remington 'fudged' it's statistics when intro'd.
Just go back and read the sales literature when it came out.
Small print....really small print at the bottom of the page.
> Listed it with a 28" barrel. Find one with a 28" barrel.
> Go hunt woods with it. Go carry it all day.
> Used a TEST barrel. Go buy a test barrel. Now put in a stock. Hunt.
> Ask for the test load data, the try to buy that load off the shelf.
Compared it mainly to the Weatherby 300 Mag.
Used their dummied down factory fodder Weatherby load when comparing.
Used a different case volume when comparing. Should have been a 30-378, but the Rem would have a beet red face.
Carefully check their specs on the new cartridges they intro'd when they compare them to the .270 & 7mm cartridges.
They compared similar cartridges with different bullets!!!!
Makes them look better.
They know the average reader/buyer doesn't check out the details. They're what's know as "copy cat" buyers.
NOT scientific.
NOT fair.
Down right DISHONEST., because it's meant to mislead.
That kind of stuff lights a short fuse of mine.
Want to call them fools but won't.
Personally, in the ultra velocities, I'll take:
Weatherby 30-378, 338-378, and the new Winchester 'fat' mags before the Rummies.
Both outperform the Rummies, and can be duplicated by third party tests without labratory equipment, and don't need Pinnochio's long nose.
Happy Bullet Holes!0 -
Thanks for the response from everyone. To clarify, I really didn't need the gun but always wanted a Sako. When your better half tells you to go buy one , you best take advantage of the weak moment. I believe that (1) you must have confidence in your ability, (2) you must have confidence in the gun you are using and this comes from time on the range. A good grouping, consistantly, gives me that feeling for the gun. I normally load 180 gr. premium bullets as I hunt only elk. I think the overbore statement probably applies for UM. Thanks again. 0 -
The RUMS I have used (7mm,300 and 338) were superb performers. Accuracy is an attribute I have seen in all 4 different rifles as well. They do need a longer barrel to reach their true speed, this would be the reason weatherby offers a 28" tube for their 378 based magnums. If remington would offer 28" and even 30" heavy barreled guns in the Sendero line,..you'd see a lot more RUM ammo being sold. I have seen them do extremely well in the factory class fired from sendero's. My 300RUM launches a 200gr SMK at 3200fps+ (from it's 30" tube) I need only ~23MOA to get me on at 1000yds.
I think they will remain a player in the big magnum race,...now if big green would get on the stick with their barrel length
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?0 -
If you want a Sako for Elk Hunting consider going with the Lazzeroni/Sako TRG-S Warbird. It totally outperforms the 300 RUM (which are dangerously overloaded aka factory warnings) in speed, accuracy and energy. The price is reasonable if you handload. If not a handloader prepare for $100 for a box of 20.
Mine shoots 3 shots in one hole using a 150 grain bullet at about 3700 fps. More speed and energy at 400 yards than a 30-06 at point blank. Recoil is milder than the 300 RUM.
Mad Dog0 -
i would rather have the RUM for long range hunting , but at normal hunting ranges i dont see any advantage 0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
11 comments