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Value/Age of Winchester Model '97

hslaterpryce
Need a little help. I know that there are some Winchester guys out there that can help me. I have come across a 1897 Winchester 12 GA Full choke "sporter" - not the military version, condition as follows"

1) No box or papers
2) S/N C212341
3) All matching numbers
4) Original butt plate
5) Blueing - PERFECT - no wear no rust no discoloration - NOT Re-Blued
6) Wood - 99% - TINY scratches on left side of buttstock - Better than average wood grain
7) Bore - Bright and shiney no dents scratches etc - Full Choke
8) A partial box of old paper shells came with it and according to the guy I got it from his dad ONLY fired the gun about 10 times - coincidently there are 15 shells missing from the box.

My questions are as follows:

1) When was it made
2) What is the value (as best can be discerned by my description) for insurance AND resale.

As always, thanks for your expert help in advance. Harold

In answer to the posted questions regarding my request for info I offer the following:

30" barrel, NOT Damascus, IT IS a takedown and it has a straight stock. I think that is what additional info you asked for - can you help me a little more? Thanks again!!! Harold
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • BOBBYWINS
    Sounds like a really nice piece!!

    I'll leave the value to someone else,but my reference shows the DOM to be 1903.

    BW

    IT'S WHAT PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THEMSELVES THAT MAKES THEM AFRAID.
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  • ahankster
    Harold,
    The gun was made in 1903 (approximately, the early 1900's serial numbers are all approximates, I think because of a fire?).

    Anyhow.
    I don't have my books here at work, but assuming it is a standard model (not a black diamond, trap or special order). The value is probably around $600 to $800. There is a difference in value between a take down model and a non-take down as well, again, without the books in my hand a specific quote is an educated guess on my part. 97s are unique because sometimes they will bring well in excess of what the "book" says, If you locate a collector.

    There are allot of folks buying these guns, Cowboy Action has inflated the prices significantly over the past ten years. They are very well built, well functioning guns. When I get home this afternoon I'll get you a better quote, if someone else doesn't do it first.
    Good Luck
    Ahankster
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  • Bert H.
    Hello Harold...

    The DOM is circa 1903, and if you would like the exact date, you can contact the Cody Firearms Museum and obtain a factory letter. The records at Cody are complete for the Model 1897 up through serial number 377,999. The factory letter will provide the exact dates - http://www.bbhc.org/firearms/records.cfm

    As for the estimated value, a "C" series Model 1897 is worth slightly more than the more common "E" series, and in the condition you describe, it will top $1000 in the collector market... no real way to tell by how much though. For insurance purposes, I would appraise it at a minmum of $1250. It is real rare to encounter a 100+ year old gun in nearly unused condition.

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • only winchesters
    hslaterpryce: sounds like a nice old 1897. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "sporter"? so I'll take a stab at it. These early guns had several stock styles, if it has a pistol grip, it would be a round knob version, simalar to the old Brownings, or a "Straight Pull stock, (no pistol grip). Typical barrel length for a Full choke gun was 30 or 32 inches unless it was the "Brush gun" version which had a 26 in barrel. So do you know the barrel length? Standard stock length was 13 3/4s unless it was a Brush gun, where they were shorter.

    Also concerning the barrel, both damascus and steel were offered. Which barrel do you have? Bert is correct that the "take down" version will bring more than a "solid frame" 1897. As Bert said you don't find guns in the condition you descibe very often, thus it would command a premium over what the "Blue Book, or Guntraders" pricing guide.

    So in conclusion: What I would need to know to give you a real close price is:
    1) Barrel-length and type, (damascus or steel)
    2) Stock-pistol grip or straight pull?
    3) Take down or solid frame?

    Here is an example, if it's a 26in full choke, with a damascus barrel, straight pull stock, it could be worth $2000 simply because it would be probably the only one around!! Can you answer the above questions? My source (Ref. Stadts book on Winchester Shotguns)

    Regards Dave
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  • Bert H.
    Dave...

    I seem to remember that Winchester "Browned" all of their Damascus barrels instead of bluing them. On the one single Model 1897 I've personally seen with a Damascus barrel, it was browned, and it was also a high-grade gun. Damascus was a "special" order option only, and when encountered, it is always on a high-grade gun.

    I believe by "standard Sporter" Harold was referring to a standard Field grade gun. The "Full" choke would rule out a Brush Gun.

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • only winchesters
    Bert I believe you are right when you say the Damascus barrels were "browned" then again I would expect a 100 year old gun to have somewhat of a brown patina to it also. All Stadt said in his book about "Brush Guns" is that they had a shorter stock, and 26 in barrels, he did not say they were only availible in more open chokes, led me to believe that you could get any choke you wanted. Hopefully hslaterpryce will be able to answer some of the questions I asked, to help in really identifying what this 1897 really is. I realize he said the blue is almost perfect, would be interested in knowing if the shells date from the same period and if they are Blackpowder, or Smokless Powder, if they are Winchester shells, the box and remaining shells could be worth several hundred dollars too. If the term "sporter" means a straight pull stock, those were usually ordered, so anything is possible. Regards Dave
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by only winchesters
    Bert I believe you are right when you say the Damascus barrels were "browned" then again I would expect a 100 year old gun to have somewhat of a brown patina to it also. All Stadt said in his book about "Brush Guns" is that they had a shorter stock, and 26 in barrels, he did not say they were only availible in more open chokes, led me to believe that you could get any choke you wanted. Hopefully hslaterpryce will be able to answer some of the questions I asked, to help in really identifying what this 1897 really is. I realize he said the blue is almost perfect, would be interested in knowing if the shells date from the same period and if they are Blackpowder, or Smokless Powder, if they are Winchester shells, the box and remaining shells could be worth several hundred dollars too. If the term "sporter" means a straight pull stock, those were usually ordered, so anything is possible. Regards Dave


    Dave... according to my reference material, the Model 1897 Brush Gun was made in Cyl Bore only (with a 26" barrel). I kind of doubt that those old shells are blackpowder, but one never knows, and you are correct... they might be worth some decent pocket change all by themself.

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • only winchesters
    Good morning Harold. Well we've now narrowed it down some. The real plus features, it's 101 years old and almost new condition, and the straight pull stock, is not that common. If you follow the gun pricing books, they will tell you $800-$900 in that condition. I feel you can throw that out the window, because it doesn't consider the age. For insurance purposes, I'd put a $1500 replacement value on it, because you would have to look a long time to find another one in that condition and age. If you were going to sell it, some real die hard Winchester collector may pay some big bucks for that gun. Realistically somewhere between $900- $1700 at auction, again it just depends how many people want a turn of the century 1897 that's almost new in there collection. Thank-you for giving us the additional info. Looks like you have a fine piece for your collection. Regards Dave
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  • hslaterpryce
    Dave;
    Thanks so much for following up on your review. Yes I feel quite good about this new piece for my collection. And I did pay a "fair" price for it too - I am never the one to get the $1500 gun for "$25 at a yard sale". As always you guys are great!!! Thanks again.
    Harold

    quote:Originally posted by only winchesters
    Good morning Harold. Well we've now narrowed it down some. The real plus features, it's 101 years old and almost new condition, and the straight pull stock, is not that common. If you follow the gun pricing books, they will tell you $800-$900 in that condition. I feel you can throw that out the window, because it doesn't consider the age. For insurance purposes, I'd put a $1500 replacement value on it, because you would have to look a long time to find another one in that condition and age. If you were going to sell it, some real die hard Winchester collector may pay some big bucks for that gun. Realistically somewhere between $900- $1700 at auction, again it just depends how many people want a turn of the century 1897 that's almost new in there collection. Thank-you for giving us the additional info. Looks like you have a fine piece for your collection. Regards Dave
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  • fishermanben
    Be careful shooting it. There is no trigger block on it(not correct terminology,I'm sure). If you pump the gun with your finger on the trigger it will shoot. Also, if your finger slips off of the trigger while cocking it, it can shoot.

    Ben

    www.RightFieldSucks.com
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