Old "boys' rifles" research
I need advice and help regarding old "boys' rifles" -- those little (even tiny!) guns of the pre-World War II years that were made for and marketed toward boys in particular. I am familiar with the various Stevens models -- Little Scout, Crackshot, Junior, etc. -- because I collect them. I also am familiar with the Hamilton rifles and am aware of some of the small Remingtons (e.g., Model 4) of that era. And I know companies such as Hopkins & Allen, Page-Lewis, Meriden and Mossberg made and/or sold some pretty small guns. What brands can you add to my list? Winchester model numbers? The reason I ask is because I'm doing research about the early marketing of these guns and am seeking ads for various models. Also, any suggestions about post-war youth guns I should look at (such as the Ithaca 49 saddlegun)? Knowing what to look for will really help, so I appreciate any advice you can give. Reply here or e-mail me at <marshel.rossow@mnsu.edu>. Thanks.
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The Quackenbush rifles come immediately to mind. I believe they were lined brass barrels etc... sorta' the definition of a "boys rifle". Some of the Savage's likethe No. 4 were I believe done on a diminutive scale as well. Don't know alot about this stuff, so that's all I can add!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
The first Winchester that comes to mind is the Model 67 "Boys rifle".
BW
IT'S WHAT PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THEMSELVES THAT MAKES THEM AFRAID.0 -
WINCHESTER MODEL 2 AND MODEL 4 0 -
Don't know how much reference material you presently have, or are aware of, on these rifles?
There have been a number of titles published in the past, concerning these types of rifles, sadly most are now out of print.
Go to www.bookfinder.com and do a search on the names, "Frank De Haas", "Ned H. Roberts", "Kenneth L. Waters" & most especially "James J. Grant" all have written books concerning various types of single shot rifles. One of Grant's books is titled "Boys Single Shot Rifles".
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I agree that Jim Grant's Boy's Rifles is a must. If you ever get one of each that he mentions (I hope you are young and have a long life of collecting in front of you), then get Single Shot Finale where he throws in a bunch more, most of which aren't single shots. 0 -
Hello Ross...
I find it very hard to believe that you have not collected ANY of the FINEST boys' rifles ever made[:0]. Winchester made LOTS of different Models, many of which were John M. Browning patents. I will attempt a brief summary of all the various models that fit into your research criteria, so here goes...
1. Model 1900 - introduced in August of 1899, discontinued in 1902 (replaced by the Model 1902), total production approximately 105,000.
2. Model 1902/02 - introduced in the March 1903 catalog, first delivery to warehouse stock was June 4, 1902. It was discontinued in 1931 after a total of 640,299 were manufactured.
3. Model 99 Thumb Trigger - introduced in 1904, first delivery to warehouse stock was July 5, 1904. It was discontinued in 1923 with total production of 75,433.
4. Model 1904/04 - introduced in 1904 (sinmultaneously with the Thumb Trigger model), first delivery to warehouse stock was July 5, 1904. It too was discontinued in 1931, and 302,859 were manufactured.
5. Model 56 - announced in the price list issue of January 3, 1927, first delivery to warehouse stock took place on Jan 8, 1926. This is a RARE model in that only 8,587 were made before it was discontinued in 1929.
6. Model 57 - also announced in the price list issue of January 3, 1927, first delivery to warehouse stock took place in August of 1926. Again, this model is somewhat rare, as only 18,281 were mamufactured before being discontinued in 1936.
7. Model 58 - announced in the price list issue of January 3, 1928, first delivery to warehouse stock took place on Jan of 1928. It was discontinued in 1931, with 38,992 manufactured.
8. Model 59 - introduced in May 1930 with first delivery to warehouse stock taking place at the same time. Again, this is a rare model in that only 9,293 were made before it was discontinued in 1931.
9. Model 60 - announced in the price list issue of January 2, 1931, first delivery to warehouse stock took place on Dec of 1930. It was discontinued in 1934, with 165,754 manufactured (replaced by the Model 67).
10. Model 67/67A - announced in 1934 catalog, first delivery to warehouse stock took place on April 19, 1934. Production was discontinued at the end of 1963 with a total of 383,587 made.
11. Model 68 - announced in 1934 catalog, first delivery to warehouse stock took place on May 23, 1934. Production was discontinued in 1946, with a total of 100,730 made.
12. Model 69/69A - announced in the price list issue of January 1, 1935, first delivery to warehouse stock took place on March 15, 1935. Production was discontinued at the end of 1963 with a total of 355,363 made.
This concludes the pre-WW II Winchester made "boys" rifles. It does not include any of the repeating slide-action Models (1890, 1906, 61 and 62), or the repeating bolt action Target rifles such as the Model 52, 60A, 697, 72, and 75.
You will note that a lot of the earlier made rifles were discontinued in 1931... that date is significant in that the Olin Corporation bought controlling interest in the Winchester Repeating Arms Compnay. The new management immediately began cost cutting measures to ensure the survival of the company during the great depression.
I hope all of my typing is of some interest to those who read this lengthy little piece of historical trivia[:D]
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
Holy crap... I can't believe I actually forgot to mention THE MOST IMPORTANT of all the Winchester made 22 caliber single-shot rifles... The Model 1885[B)][:D] If you would like researched history on this model, you will have to wait until I finish my reference book on them[8D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by joel_black
I agree that Jim Grant's Boy's Rifles is a must. If you ever get one of each that he mentions (I hope you are young and have a long life of collecting in front of you), then get Single Shot Finale where he throws in a bunch more, most of which aren't single shots.
Hey Joel... Nice to see you found this forum[:D] Please send me an email... I have a couple of new survey forms I would like to send you. Win1885@msn.com
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Winchester had a long line of diminutive single shots. Starting with the model 1900,thumbtrigger, 1902, 1904, model 58,59,60,60a,67,68,68a and 47. A very good reference book is To "The Dreams of Youth" Winchester Single Shot Rifles By Herbert Houze. Savage made some small bolt action single shots that were hard to distinguish between the Winchester 02s and 04s.
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Whenever I see a cow eat grass, I am reminded that "This too shall pass."............ Baxter Black0 -
http://home.att.net/~jim.jackie.r/
You might like this webpage.
Dean
If they don't trust us with guns, how can we trust them with the government?
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Very impressive Wundudnee!!!!
If I was going to isolate a single reference source for the "boy's gun" collector, I'd recommend Jim Perkin's book "American Boys' Rifles 1890-1945." They are out of print and pretty pricey. I think ABEBooks has one. It lists each of the manufacturers, their history, models, dates, etc.
I can't think of a more rewarding hobby than filling a gunsafe with these illusive rascals.
Good Collecting!0
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