Damascus and black powder
My friend just inherited an old Damascus barreled shotgun, and he wants to shoot it at his club. However, he doesn't know anything about reloading shells, yet alone reloading with black powder. Can anyone tell me what kind of specs he needs as far as powder and shot charge, wad, etc.? Thanks.
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This is generally considered a disaster waiting to happen. Even if it is a quality made arm, there are so many variables that just plain make this a really bad idea. Besides the possibilities of putting a smokeless round in by chance, the factor of time and corrosion makes this a game of Russian Roulette. Even if it looks sound, no pitting in the bore, it is very possible to have rusting going on between the laps and welds. It might be fine for a 1000 rounds, 100, 10 or 1. There's no way to predict or inspect enough. 0 -
Have to agree with Allechaley on this topic. While these guns can be and have been fired, it is always a bit of a crap shoot and ticklis at best. Even an experienced gunsmith would likely tell you the same thing about the condition of the chambers and the solder joints and mating of the Damascene twists. IF you had the ability to play with some really light BP loads, then perhaps, but barring that, I wouldn't play with this gun at all! It would likely be a better display piece than a shooter. Better a cherished piece of family history than a police evidence gun!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
Hi eastwood,
I know how your friend is feeling. I've been on the look out for a bargin on an old Damascus type SxS. I was looking forward to the day I found a gem, a gem that I could shot like our grandfathers did before us. Now If I find that gem I'll have to keep it in good working order just to say that it's a real working antique. Not ever shooting it for fear that it would become worthless.[V]
Just think of the story you could of told holding that old SxS in one hand and that old Tom in the other. Guess a replica will have to do.
Born To Hunt... Forced To Work... #@!#$!!0 -
I really don't want to completely stomp on your aspirations here, but "grandads" shotgun is likely pretty important to your friend as well, so I just want to recommend erring on the side of caution! Perhaps taking it to a qualified gunsmith would be a good idea just to ease you own mind...I might be too pessimistic, but I fear not in this case! Always want these situations to turn out well and safely![;)]
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
Hello have you ever thought about shooting the gun with inserts/tubes some of the skeet guys shoot one gun with full lenght tubes for 20/28/410 in them they take all the strain and not the barrel on the gun.Karl 0 -
No "qualified gunsmith" in his right mind would give a green light to shooting the old damascus. What people say is true that there is no way to know. Having said that, is there an actual eyeball witness of a damascus barrel failing? I've seen dented, bulged, rung, bent and most other barrel damages but never one that actually ruptured. As a kid in the 1930s before anyone knew better I shot my Grandfather's old damascus double he bought second hand in 1886. I shot it hundreds of rounds with whatever 12 gauge fodder I could get. I still have the gun in the same poor condition it was in but I don't shoot it any more. Been there, done that, but don't shoot your old damascus. 0 -
Yup! I have a cousin (who for his sake shall remain nameless!) who decided that "borrowing" our grandfathers .410 SxS when they were in Florida for the season and bringing it out "bunny bumping" with myself and two other of our cousind would be a chipper idea. I had my old Mossberg bolt 410 and a backpack full of shells while the two older boys were dragging along their Winchester Mod. 12's. Even at the age of 14 I thought it was a bit oddthat my grandfather (notoriously finicky about his guns) would let my cousin "borrow" his beautiful old SxS (Ibelieve it was an old Fox, but memory fails me at this point)at the age of 13 but what did I know, I wasn't grandpa's favorite, and the cousin in question was.
He of sourse did not have shells, so he asked for some of mine. I obliged as I knew alot less about the vagueries of metallurgy at that time than I do now. The first shot went off O.K. although I'm pretty sure it bulged the first barrel and the second shot touched off a catastrophic result. The barrels were seperated from about half way along the length to the ends, andthe right barrel looked, for the last 3 inches, a little like a slinky. It seemed to rip the damascene layers apart from one another and spread them out, as mentioned, like a slinky or coil spring. None of the four of us was hurt (too bad as when grandpa got ahold of said cousin it was a grizzly scene to be sure!)which I mark as a miracle as we were all within 15 feet of the occurence!
I am sure there are other eye witnesses to these kind of idiotic events, and I hope they were all as fortunate in their ending as was the one I survived! I have not spoken to that cousin for more than 20 years. I will likely never do so again as I found out when gramps got back from FLA that I was supposed to get the .410 in question for my 16th birthday.
While these things happen only rarely, they DO HAPPEN and I can tell you that from personal experience! Lesson to be drawn from this? Keep that heirloom as a wall hanger and always kick the crap out of your hill-trash cousin when you suspect he has stolen your grandfathers posessions!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
Don't shoot it....! You've got some good info here....
Captain Kirk, Tech Staff0 -
As perry shooter mentioned I have heard of people using full length sub caliber tubes in these guns though I've never actually seen it. I would think if one used 20 gauge tubes and loaded some BP loads you could still maintain the nostalgic feel of these old guns. Still wouldn't be a bad idea to check it first. 0 -
MP...Very interesting site. Looks as though one would be best served checking these specialists out as they seem to have a great deal of experience in this area. The one recurring theme I have noticed is "tight, and in excellent condition". Words to the wise! I'm not too sure I would be shooting MY J. Lang shotgun that way...if I had one that is!!![:p][:p][:p]
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
1KYDSTR, another good site for people who are knowledgeable about Damascus barrels is.
http://gunshop.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=1
Damascus barrels are for the most part very misunderstood in this county, log on to any site in the UK with shotguns for sale and you will see gun after gun with damascus barrels proved for nitro. Black powder or smokeless powder loaded to the same pressure as black is perfectly safe in a gun that is in good condition. There are many gunsmiths in America who understand damascus and can inspect a shotgun to determine if it's safe or not.0 -
Thanks to you Member of Parliment! Cheers!! [:D]
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0
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