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Winchester 1894 Carbine

cdm85-251
In what year did they move the front barrel band from infront of the front sight to behind it?
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  • cdm85-251
    I am doing some research for a brother-in-law of mine on a couple rifles and need some help. The first rifle is a Winchester Model 1894 which appears to be a Carbine model. It has the two barrel bands, one near the front sight holding the barrel and magazine tube together, and the other around the front of the front stock. All of of these models that I have seen on the web have saddle rings, and this one doesn't. It is chambered for .30WCF.

    There is also a stamping on the barrel and receiver ring that I would like to know about. It appears to be a W stamped over a tall P in an oval. Anyone tell me what this stands for??

    Also, does anyone know if it was common to have this rifle without the saddle ring? Other than missing the saddle ring, it is identical to all the other Saddle Ring Carbines with the short stock and metal butt plate. Any other information you can share would be greatly appreciated.

    CDM
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  • Bert H.
    Hello CDM...

    Winchester eliminated the Saddle ring from all Carbines circa 1940, and there were "Eastern" Carbines made as early as the late 1920s that did not have the saddle ring. The serial number will tell us when your Carbine was made.

    The superposed "WP" in an oval is Winchester's proof mark and it came into use shortly after the turn of the century when smokeless powder firearms became the norm.

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • cdm85-251
    Serial number on this rifle is 382285.
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  • Bert H.
    Hmmm... that serial number indicates a DOM circa 1907/1908, and as such, it is way too early for a Eastern Carbine. It should have a saddle ring on it. Does it have a threaded hole for a saddle ring stud?

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • cdm85-251
    No, no hole in the side for anything to screw into. The only things on the left side of the receiver are screws that I assume hold the receiver and mechanisms together, unless one of them could be replaced by the stud.

    CDM
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by cdm85-251
    ... unless one of them could be replaced by the stud.

    CDM


    That is most likely the case. Can you post a picture of the left side of the frame of your Carbine (or send me a picture - Win1885@msn.com)?

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • zink
    What length barrel does it have (to make sure it is a carbine)? Also the Cody Museum can get you a letter with the origonal specifications when it left the factory, date of manufacter, to whom it was shipped, etc.

    Thanks,
    Lance
    10's RULE
    [:D]
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    Also the Cody Museum can get you a letter with the origonal specifications when it left the factory, date of manufacter, to whom it was shipped, etc.

    Thanks,
    Lance
    10's RULE
    [:D]


    Zink... not true for the serial number on CDM's Carbine. The records that Cody has for the Model 1894 stop at 353,999 (see this link - http://www.bbhc.org/firearms/popup_WinchesterRecords.cfm), and unfortunately, all of the records from that point through WW II are forever gone (accidently destroyed years ago). Also, the original destination information is not contained in the original factory ledgers - http://www.bbhc.org/firearms/records.cfm

    In CDM's first post he confirmed that it is indeed a Carbine with the following statement; "It has the two barrel bands, one near the front sight holding the barrel and magazine tube together, and the other around the front of the front stock."

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • cdm85-251
    Thanks for the additional information Bert. I measured the barrel for the heck of it, and it is approximately 19 3/8" from the end of the barrel to the receiver ring.

    Bert you should have pictures by e-mail.

    I saw that too that the serial number is outside of the Cody Museum limits.

    CDM
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by cdm85-251
    Thanks for the additional information Bert. I measured the barrel for the heck of it, and it is approximately 19 3/8" from the end of the barrel to the receiver ring.

    Bert you should have pictures by e-mail.

    I saw that too that the serial number is outside of the Cody Museum limits.

    CDM


    Please try sending them again (I had to clean about 4Mb worth of old pictures out of my inbox, and your pictures may not have come through).

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • zink
    Bert,
    You are correct, guess I should have paid more attention. The one I got on my 1894 Light Weight Rifle had destination info, made in 1901. Could this be a "short rifle".

    lance
    10's RULE
    [:D]
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by zink
    Could this be a "short rifle".

    lance
    10's RULE
    [:D]


    No... "Short" Rifles always have octagon barrels, and they do not use a barrel band for retaining the magazine tube (a magazine ring slot is cut into the bottom of the barrel 3.5" from the muzzle just like it is on all regular length Rifles).

    It is extremely rare to find a Winchester that has the destination or "Sold to" information in the factory ledgers. I have checked the records at Cody on 3500+ Winchesters thus far (mostly Model 1885s), and I have only encounterd ONE such entry. If your Model 1894 factory letter shows the destination, then you are extremely lucky.

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • zink
    Bert,
    Thanks on the info on the short rifle, I succeed to the gentleman with the knowledge in this area. I guess I was lucky on the letter
    Thanks again,
    Lance
    10's RULE
    [:D]
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