Fully automatic guns
Is it legal for a civilian to own an automatic weapon if you have a Class 3 federally licensed firearms dealer permit?
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Clarify your question because it points in two very distinct directions: Do you wish to become a licensed Class 3 firearms dealer or do you simply wish to own a machinegun? Each involves its own specific rules and regulations.
Mark T. Christian0 -
I just want to own a machinegun, and I read on some lawyer's site or something that was one of the requirements. Also something about certain types of automatic weapons had to be manufactured before 1986, and you must pay a tax to the Secretary of the Treasury and undergo an extensive background check.
If you had a link to some legal text and actual procedures I would appreciate it.0 -
I forget the exact date in 1986, but you can't own a fully-automatic weapon made after said date. The Class III FFL is for dealers of such guns, which themselves are known as "NFA items", along with suppressors, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, destructive devices, and "any other weapons" (AOW's...these are a quirky bunch including pen guns and certain sawed-off shotguns, among others). You don't need the C3 FFL to buy one, but you do need to go through the background check process and pay a $200 tax on the transfer.
I've heard that the current waiting period is 12-18 months on machine guns and 6 months on the others. You'll need a chief law enforcement officer's signature, among other things. Do some googling around for a full step-by-step list of what to do. Step 1 is to determine if it's legal for you to possess a machine gun - are you prohibited from owning one because of your criminal record or because of the municipality within which you live? If not, then go on to step 2: find the gun you want to buy. Step 3 is buy the gun, and steps 4 through nauseum make up the transfer process by which you actually take possession of the gun.
Good luck! [:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Clarentavious
I just want to own a machinegun, and I read on some lawyer's site or something that was one of the requirements. Also something about certain types of automatic weapons had to be manufactured before 1986, and you must pay a tax to the Secretary of the Treasury and undergo an extensive background check.
If you had a link to some legal text and actual procedures I would appreciate it.
The ATF site has all the rules. The "Frequently Asked Questions" is a good place to start for your answers:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm
You can also call local firearm dealers in your area; tell them you are interested buying a Class 3 firearm and are wondering if they are a Class 3 dealer or can tell you where you can find one locally. They'll be able to tell you the rules--most specifically if such firearms are legal for you to own locally; some states prohibit their ownership.
Of course, understand that even the cheapest machine guns cost thousands of dollars since no new ones, for civilian ownership, have been produced since 1986--the limited supply has driven prices to extremes.0 -
Yes machine guns are legal in many states. Zerodin was correct about most everything exept the waiting periods. It is usually 3 months or less for a gun to be transfered from dealer to individual. You do need the Chief Law Enforcement signature, fingerprints, and a complete FBI background check. You will also need lots of money ($200 for each tax stamp + the money for the gun) Check gunbroker for machineguns, they are listed under NFA/ClassIII in the modern guns section. Machineguns for private ownership must be built before May of 1986 or imported before 1968. Hope that helps.
Jess0 -
All the above is good information. A Class 3 License allows you to buy and sell the above described weapons. A Class 3 stamp allows you to own a single weapon. Transfers to individuals can take as little as (2-3 months) or as long as (9 months). It depends on the work load at BATFE and always politics.
What has not been addressed is the basic right you sign away by owning a Class III weapon. BATFE and its agents have the legal right to come to the registered address of your Class III weapon 24/7. They have the legal right to demand to see your machine gun and paperwork. You must have them in your posession and produce them in a timely manner.
That said, they are a helluva lot of fun!!!0 -
So can you guys give me the specific steps I'll need to do? For example, for the chief officer's signature, do I need to go downtown to the local police department/sheriff's office and ask for a signature?
What about the background check? How do I go about that?
I didn't see the information under the ATF's FAQ. They said you can't e-mail them with legal/technical questions, you have to send them a snail mail paper letter.0 -
Get an ATF From 4, two sets of fingerprints taken on FBI fingerprint cards (FD-258), which are best if done by a PD, and a passport photo. Chances are excellent that you will need to appear in person at the office of your local CLEO as a first time applicant, just so the folks at the PD can see that you are a real live human being matching the provided photo (don't use your high school graduation photo as this one need to be recent). After that you need to include a check for the $200 NFA transfer tax, mail it in, and just sit back waitng until approved. Don't worry about the background check because PLENTY of folks will be checking you over very carefully...you won't have to do a thing! In reality the process is not all that involved and really not complicated, all you need is a big pile of loose cash to pay for your machinegun. Enjoy.
Mark T. Christian0 -
quote:Originally posted by mark christian
In reality the process is not all that involved and really not complicated, all you need is a big pile of loose cash to pay for your machinegun. Enjoy.
Too bad reality doesn't match the Constitutional theory of "...the process is not all that involved and really not complicated, all you need is about $100 more over the semi-automatic version of the gun because we didn't create any artificial limitations on supply to drive up the prices while taking away the rights that we forget people died for over 200 years ago."
I personally wish I could afford a B.A.R., Grease Gun, or M14. Those are the historical guns I want, with the MP5 being the modern one I'm after. But nobody will ever have the balls to be the guy who gave machine guns back to the public. [:(!]0 -
Ok, so I should just go down to my local police department and tell them I want these things done?
One more thing. If the ATF comes by my house to inspect my gun, and I'm not home (say I'm out shopping), are they going to pitch a fit if they ring the door bell and don't get an answer? Or are they simply going to leave a note or message on my answering machine saying they'll be back later?0 -
Chances of anyone showing up at your home simply to look at your privately owned machinegun are so remote that I'd suspect the "ATF inspectors" are crooks looking to rip you off (or worse). If anyone does show up at your home you should call the local field office and verify their ID before you open the door and let ANYONE in your home. Real inspectors/field agents will understand this exercise in caution won't mind the wait. There is no way to do the actual transfer without getting your local PD/chief involved in the process so you might as well head on down and tell them straight up what you want to do. As I mentioned, this is not a complicated process, it simply takes the correct forms, the right amount of documents, and some cash-- lots of cash for the gun itself. I think that when you take a close look at the prices involved for a transferable machinegun you may rethink this project as most available for unlicensed individuals like yourself are quite expensive. Dealers can enjoy low cost restricted sales samples for our fun.
Mark T. Christian0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mooseyard
Machineguns for private ownership must be built before May of 1986 or imported before 1968. Hope that helps.
Jess
What if you manufacture it yourself, with no intention for transferring it, or any other purpose except private ownership?
Since I have been studying Greek lately, I'll give a more direct translation of the Thermopylae Monument: "Stranger, tell the Lakedaemonians that in agreement with their customs, we lie here."0 -
I know for a fact that u have to acquire a certain licence from the govt. if your state even allows it. They will do an extensive FBI backround check and the licence with be quite costly...however if you have the time and money you will enjoy a fully auto weapon. But honestly, the weapon itself and the licence would put most people past 10 grand unless they came back from war or got the weapon very cheap some how. Have fun if you can. I wish I had the option as i've seen a fully auto hk g3 variant for sale at a local shop for more than 3 grand and drooled over it.
WordBorn!!0 -
Chunkstyle, Only licensed manufactures can make machine guns. If you wanted to make another type of weapon (silencer,SBS, SBR, AOW) you could apply to the ATF on a Form 1 to manufacture it. Your Form 1 MUST BE APPROVED BEFORE you can start building the gun.
As far as getting into the world of Class III collecting, I always recommend going and seeing the local CLEO before you do anything else. If you have a C&R, you can explain that you are a licensed collector. The C&R doesn't have any effect on the transfer (except on limited occasions) but it does sound good to the CLEO. Find a dealer in your area or state, they can help you with most of your questions.0 -
Your first step is to locate a Class III dealer, talk to him about what you want, and he will get you started on the road to ownership.
Look for a dealer in your area who handles Class III firearms. He will provide you the paperwork and advise you as to the steps.
Is your local police chief anti-gun? If so, you are screwed, unless you know a federal judge who will sign off on your application.
Chris8161
Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof!0 -
What does CLEO stand for? 0
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