Sauer 1913 Type I -Assembly
A number of years ago I purchased a nice condition J.P. Sauer and Sohn 1913 Type I, English import version. I would rate it at around 80%, all original except the firing pin/striker which is misnumbered. There are, additionally, Crown N proofs in about 7 places and one of the grips is a bit buggered, but all in all, a really nice little gun. I have 2 questions to pose here today.
First, after about 2 boxes of ammo, it developed the startling habit of turning itself into a machine pistol, cooking of 2,3 or 4 rounds at once. After that occurred a few times, I of course discontinued use of it and stopped taking to the range. At the same time I checked another reference source and discovered that it was worth considerably more than I thought it was. Would one assume that this is afunction of the recoil spring as it also does not look to be original. I was wondering, basically, if it was a bit too stiff and was keeping the sear catch from engaging, and consequently the weight of the striker was slam firing the next round to battery. I have been using only Winchester ball ammo which I believe to be fairly light loaded and appropriate for a pistol of this vintage. I dissasembled the pistol completely and noticed that the right grip was damaged because the frame had taken an impact that pinched the frame, mid grip, and straightened that back out. This had the additional benefit of allowing the mags to move freely in the well also, which I had not noticed was a problem previously.
Next question, and most importantly, does anyone have access to a schematic for the type I with the push button safety? The NRA published one I have is for the types II, III and IV which does not show this assemblage. I am unable to get the subframe out of the grip frame, which I assume to be a function of the connection to the mag./push button safety assembly. This has been ongoing for the last year, on and off and it is beginning to really make me insane; I have never run into an assembly, gun wise, that I could not figure out and this one has the better of me! I think Mr.'s Sauer are reaching out from the grave to get even with me or something! I would really like to get this thing back together so I can sell it befor I shoot it to death; it is, when operable, a surprisingly accurate little gun and an engineering masterpiece that some Sauer collector should have the opportunity to own. Any help would be appreciated!
Bill
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)
First, after about 2 boxes of ammo, it developed the startling habit of turning itself into a machine pistol, cooking of 2,3 or 4 rounds at once. After that occurred a few times, I of course discontinued use of it and stopped taking to the range. At the same time I checked another reference source and discovered that it was worth considerably more than I thought it was. Would one assume that this is afunction of the recoil spring as it also does not look to be original. I was wondering, basically, if it was a bit too stiff and was keeping the sear catch from engaging, and consequently the weight of the striker was slam firing the next round to battery. I have been using only Winchester ball ammo which I believe to be fairly light loaded and appropriate for a pistol of this vintage. I dissasembled the pistol completely and noticed that the right grip was damaged because the frame had taken an impact that pinched the frame, mid grip, and straightened that back out. This had the additional benefit of allowing the mags to move freely in the well also, which I had not noticed was a problem previously.
Next question, and most importantly, does anyone have access to a schematic for the type I with the push button safety? The NRA published one I have is for the types II, III and IV which does not show this assemblage. I am unable to get the subframe out of the grip frame, which I assume to be a function of the connection to the mag./push button safety assembly. This has been ongoing for the last year, on and off and it is beginning to really make me insane; I have never run into an assembly, gun wise, that I could not figure out and this one has the better of me! I think Mr.'s Sauer are reaching out from the grave to get even with me or something! I would really like to get this thing back together so I can sell it befor I shoot it to death; it is, when operable, a surprisingly accurate little gun and an engineering masterpiece that some Sauer collector should have the opportunity to own. Any help would be appreciated!
Bill
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)
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Kydstr,
I have two 1913's, one early (3000 range and says Prussia) and one later (32,000 range and says Suhl) and both have lever safeties, not buttons. What is your serno?
The machine pistole problem may well be the wrong mainspring, but if it is stripping the cartridge out of the mag, most likely it is going back far enough. You might try squaring up the contact suface on the striker and sear. Does the firing pin look original? If not, I would replace with an original. Wobbling in the firing pin channel can also cause slam fires.
Men have passed on...knowledge...yet in politcs, statecraft, and social relationships we continue to repeat old mistakes.
It is a thing I must remember, that men must always remember, that civilization is a flimsy cloak, and just outside are hunger, thirst, and cold.....waiting. L'Amour0 -
Hello I have disassembly info on a Sauer old model or model 14 my book states it was first model to achieve commercial success but you state yours is a model 13 if they are the same pistolleave me a note Karl 0 -
Hey guys!
Sorry to have been so slow to get back to the forum; had to D.J. a friends wedding this weekend and was mondo busy thrying to make everything go by the numbers! Thank you much for the replies...I knew someone here could help me out! The serial number is 1383 ( on Jim Cates' list of Sauer firearms ) and it shows as being a type I, which supposedly stopped around 1500 SN and they then dropped the Push Button safety ( still has the conventional swinging safety in front of left grip as well ) and changed the disassembly process too. Instead of pressing down the rear sight and screwing the bolt retaining knob off the back, there is a small hole in said knurled knob with a tensioned metal plate that when you insert a very small wood or metal rod into allows the knob to be screwed off the slide. The button safety is supposed to work as a magazine safety as far as I can tell, but I once toyed with the thought that it was perhaps a selector switch what with its' tendency to become a machinepistol!); but that makes no sense in a pistol of this type! The firng pin is the only non matching part I can find on the gun but certainly appears correct for the type. Has the number 95 on it so in theory it MIGHT be from number 1395, but who knows. I will inspect the traverse of the striker in the well and see what it acts like; very good suggestion, thank you! Also, the gun is marked with the Prussia address, the difference between the European and English export versions is the spelling on the slide. HAs a standing hunter in an oval as well, and lotsa' crown N's all over the place! Neat little gun for sure! Karl, it is indeed a Model 1913 pocket pistol in 32 ACP so I hope I haven't confused the issue by listing it as a model "13"! Sorry for the abbreviation, that doesn't help when trying to identify these things much!! Thanks again guys, and I'll keep an eye peeled a little better this time for your responses
Bill
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
Ky,
VERY early indeed! My early one also has the small punch in the center of the cocking knob.
Been a LONG time since I took it apart, but will tomorrow to refresh the brain pan. Might get some insight to your problem. Will advise.
Mike
Men have passed on...knowledge...yet in politcs, statecraft, and social relationships we continue to repeat old mistakes.
It is a thing I must remember, that men must always remember, that civilization is a flimsy cloak, and just outside are hunger, thirst, and cold.....waiting. L'Amour0 -
Thanks Mike!
I fear that after all is said and done I may have to find a really good gunsmith and have them reassemble the old girl. I would really like to avoid that though...I hate to give up on such things darn it! Then again, pride and overconfidence got me to the point I'm at now!! LOL!! It's pretty embarrasing to have the thing sitting in a bag right now and know that it is such a rare and collectable pistol! Let me know what comes out of the old rememberer, I would be very grateful!
Bill
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
KY,
I fieldstripped the Sauer today and discovered it is also a Type I (serno 3388) with the pushbutton safety "Oversafe"
I highly recommend you aquire the GUN DIGEST BOOK OF EXPLODED FIREARM DRAWINGS, Vol II, and GUN COLLECTORS DIGEST Vol III. Both are paperback and out of print but should be available from used gunbook dealers.
After examination of the Sauer, the subassembly should come out after the pins are removed from the frame. The oversafety is in the forward part of the magazine well and does not appear to be linked to anything else other than the interference fit with the trigger.
I also found the weapon has a holdopen in the top of the triggerguard. Press up with the slide pulled to the rear. The triggerguard lever is used for cleaning and when done with cleaning, must be let down with a sharp downward rap in the the palm of your hand to disengage while holding the slide back.
Additonal information gathered from the references: The "Oversafe" was discontinued at around serno 7000. The rear sight was a groove in the knob until about serno 3000 (Mine has the groove only, so all serno cutoffs are appoximate).
It is my feeling that you can use the later diagrams for assembly as the major components are exactly the same in function and fit. Of course, make notation of the lack of rear sight detent on the knob and the oversafe assembly. You may have to become a firearms engineer at time, but just look at a part and ask yourself "How would I design it?"
Good luck, and if you decide you want to get rid of that antiquated piece of junk[:D], give me a hollar!
ADDENDUM: The oversafe is strictly a magazine safety. It works as follows;
Whenever the magazine is removed, the button pops out. When a fresh magazine is inserted, the button must be depressed to allow the trigger to operate. It need only be depressed initialy and will remain inop until that magazine is removed.
Men have passed on...knowledge...yet in politcs, statecraft, and social relationships we continue to repeat old mistakes.
It is a thing I must remember, that men must always remember, that civilization is a flimsy cloak, and just outside are hunger, thirst, and cold.....waiting. L'Amour0 -
Thanks Mike! You are the man! I appreciate the time you spent researching my pistol, and feel I now have a good enough grip on the mechanics of the thing to get it back together! You are a credit to the forum...a gentleman and a scholar!!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(Al Capone)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0
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