some more ammo questions
I don't get the numbers very well because I never knew them so I wouldn't know how to compare them.
How is the recoil on the .40 S&W compared to the 9mm? Also, how do the ammo prices compare?
Is the hollow tips cheaper? I don't really get the hollow points and the .45 ACP maybe someone can explain that to me? Are the bullets just weaker?
I like the 9mm, but I would be willing to take a step up if the recoil isn't really that bad and the ammo prices are about the same, I just wanted to get some advice before I even start shooting them.
How is the recoil on the .40 S&W compared to the 9mm? Also, how do the ammo prices compare?
Is the hollow tips cheaper? I don't really get the hollow points and the .45 ACP maybe someone can explain that to me? Are the bullets just weaker?
I like the 9mm, but I would be willing to take a step up if the recoil isn't really that bad and the ammo prices are about the same, I just wanted to get some advice before I even start shooting them.
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Oh and the 9mm I am shooting is the glock 19 0 -
One thing I could suggest to do to kinda get the idea of different cartridges out there is to go to a place that sells bulk reloading brass and compare them. Simply put, a loose rule is that the longer the case the more capacity and the faster it will shoot. The bigger around the more energy it theoretically stores. However, this is VERY loose interpertation of ballistics and is NOT a reliable way to know the relative power, but at least gives some form of reference. For example, the .357 mag is significantly longer than the 10mm yet the 10mm is at the very least equal if not superior to the .357 mag in every way.
Another way to find out more about the different loadings is to pick up a copy of "the cartridges of the world". They cover the most popular cartridges and give specs for them.
Don't feel bad for not knowing all the ins and outs of the different offerings, even the popular ones. There is a lot of wrong information floating around that confuses a person futher.
You asked on the 10mm thread about including a .22. I got this picture from another GB member and I can't think of who for sure, I think maybe it was tailgunner, anyway, it isn't the best quality picture, but does include the .22 along with some of the other offerings.
The 10mm - either you've got it, or you don't get it...0 -
i never realized just how big the 10mm was! my buddy was talking about getting one and i told him he was stupid and not to waste his time and to just buy a 40 cal. now i'm going to go and pull my head out of my ass and get some sleep. cody
if you're in my yard tonight, you'll be there in the morning0 -
pips,
First off, welcome to the zoo!
The .40 has noticeably more recoil than the 9x19 - simple Newtonian physics - heavier bullet launched at roughly comparable velocity = more ME = more recoil. If you shop carefully, you can often buy 9x19 for only a slight premium over the cost of reloading it . . . that is *cheap!* I've never seen any decent quality .40 for which I could make the same claim. As a good rule of thumb, the larger the caliber, the more expensive the round will be - heavier bullets consume more copper / lead and require more powder to launch them . . . greater raw material cost = higher prices.
Hollow *points* (not "tips" - although the terms are roughly comparable in conversational English, the term "point" has, for reasons lost in antiquity, been the technical term in describing bullets since forever) are simply designed (generally) to expand more quickly, imparting more energy to the target . . . and also are less likely to over penetrate. The bullets are not "weaker," unless the design and jacket material are intentionally made to fragment.
I'm not sure what you are asking in respect to the .45 ACP, but the recoil on this round is heavier than the 9x19 and the configuration of the M1911 type pistols functions most reliably with FMJ bullets, although some of the jacketed HP designs work quite well.
Your best bet would be to go to a range which rents handguns and try some Glocks (since you apparently like the 19) in these two calibers. This will eliminate the variables introduced by shooting different brands of handguns and allow you to concentrate solely on the feel of the firearm as it fires the other calibers. Be sure to use comparable ammo, though. If you normally shoot standard loads, don't jump into a +P, for example.
The 9x19 is a nice, accurate cartridge, but fairly mild. Despite the European fascination with it, IMHO - but based on the experience of the FBI and our troops in the field - it is not near as effective as the .40 & .45 respectively. If a CCW handgun for social interaction is your goal, the latter two are - again JMHO - a far better choice.
"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain) ". . . And liberals / DemoWipes" (me)0 -
quote:Originally posted by ameriskin
i never realized just how big the 10mm was! my buddy was talking about getting one and i told him he was stupid and not to waste his time and to just buy a 40 cal. now i'm going to go and pull my head out of my ass and get some sleep. cody
if you're in my yard tonight, you'll be there in the morning
The caption is a little deciving, as it's shifted slightly to the right. The silvertip hollowpoint is a 44SPL round, the 10mm is the empty case next to it. The 10mm is the same diameter as the 40, but with a slightly longer casing (40S&W is a 10mm short, being another way to say it).
BH, your right, I need to re-take a few of those photos to make them clearer.
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.0 -
I hoped it was yours tailgunner, (cause if it wasn't, then I had NO idea of who to credit it to). It's real difficult to take detailed pictures of shiny objects for sure!
This pic would be easier for a reader to decypher if all the bullets/casings were of the same mineral and all loaded with similar bullets.
Anyway, it should help our fledgling ammo knowledge collector. Thanks for the pic TG1954 so I could spread it around to help others. [;)]0 -
It all depends upon the load and the barrel length. Take, for instance a 5" barreled P35 9mm Browning. 8" long, still quite feasible for ccw carry. You can get a hollowbased, 50 gr bullet to 2200 fps in this gun, for 530 ft lbs and an impressive amount of shock-causing tissue damage, yet the recoil is very mild indeed, and the chamber pressure is just barely PlusP. It makes .45 BALL ammo look sick comparison. If the 230 gr .45 jhp is not plus P loaded, and it's fired in the 3.5" barrel of the compact 1911's, it has 750 fps, 280 ft lbs of energy, and it will wasted about 1/3rd of that power on the far side of a man, because the velocity is too low to expand a jhp. So the 9mm prefrag ends up being 2-3x more likley to suffice.
Many guys dont even know enough math to realize that a 90% stopper is 3x as good as a 67% stopper. A 90% load fails 10 times in 100 shootings. A 67% stopper fails 33 times in 100 shootings. :-) 30 being 3x as many failures as 10, the 90% stopper is 3x as good a load. .45 ball is about a 2 out of 3 stopper. A really good 9mm load is a 9 out of 10 stopper, if both rounds are placed on the chest, and averaged out over 100 such shootings. A really good .45 Super load, however, is considerably better than the 9mm. A 95% stopper is 2x as good a load as a 90% stopper. 5 failures in 1000 shootings, as vs 10 failures. A whole lot of people don't have the mentality necessary to be able to GRASP that concept.0 -
Pipskicks -
The variables are many; firearm size is a significant player in FELT recoil. The best advice, which you've already gotten, is to compare similar guns with similar loads.
A 230 gr. FMJ .45 acp round fired from a 6" longslide full-size 1911 will produce much less "Felt" recoil than the same round fired from a 3" barreled mini-45; the weight of the pistol helps absorb the recoil energy generated by the round being fired.
Try different pistols and see.
Gun Control = FIRM GRIP!0 -
Find a shooting range that rents guns. Try a few different guns in different calibers to see what u like. Stick with the gun/caliber that u shoot the best with. 0 -
He doesn't know enough and WON'T, for quite a while, to pick his 'lifetkme" ccw gun. He needs to shoot a lot of .22's, in a variety of guns, first. Then a lot of 9mm's, then some .45's, then he will know enough to choose wisely. It's a bad idea to "think" that you are going to stick with the first pistol that you buy, for the rest of your life. You are probably going to either own many different ones, over the years, or you are going to be pretty inept with the only one you ever had. 0
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