No Serial # Winchester 37 How old?
Twelve guage single shot 37 Winchester. 2 3/4 or shorter 'Choke' No serial number that I could find. A very small 0 or o in a circle under the break lever. Does not say Winchester on the bottom of the reciever. The hammer is a flat, serated/checkered(?) sort of button rather than a spur hammer.
Does anyone know when these were manufactured in this configuration?
Thanks,
Henry
Doh! I checked my own reference book, it says 37-63. Maybe this model never had serial numbers?
Semper Fi
Remember Ruby Ridge.
Experience is the best teacher and usually charges accordingly.
Does anyone know when these were manufactured in this configuration?
Thanks,
Henry
Doh! I checked my own reference book, it says 37-63. Maybe this model never had serial numbers?
Semper Fi
Remember Ruby Ridge.
Experience is the best teacher and usually charges accordingly.
0
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Model 37...Not Serially numbered. Introduced in 1936, discontinued in 1963. A total of 1,015,554 were made. Re-introduced in 1973, as the model 37-A, discontinued in 1981. This is from The Late George Madis's Book of Winchester Dates of manufacture......
Captain Kirk, Tech Staff0 -
Hello Henry...
You may have found one of the very early made Model 37s.
According to what I can find (which isn't a whole lot), the top lever (to break it open) was originally made of sheet metal folded to shape, and was changed to a solid forging September 25, 1936. It further states, that a new design "larger" hammer was authorized on February 19, 1937... from your description, it sounds like the one you are looking at may have the early style hammer spur.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
HenryO: Bert covered it quite well, the only thing I could add is that the forearm on yours should have a complete "bullnose" meaning as you look at the bottom of the forearm and move to the muzzle end it is a straight line, with the muzzel end being completely rounded. In 1941 they changed a little, about the last inch, it had a slite tapper up toward the barrel, before they rounded the end of the forearm. That's assuming it still has the original forearm wood on it.
My question would be is why didn't Winchester serialize these, along with the Md 36, and Md 41, (both bolt actions), after all they serialized the Md 1885 shotgun, the Md 20 shotgun, so it can't be because it was a single shot. Regards Dave0 -
quote:Originally posted by only winchesters
My question would be is why didn't Winchester serialize these, along with the Md 36, and Md 41, (both bolt actions), after all they serialized the Md 1885 shotgun, the Md 20 shotgun, so it can't be because it was a single shot. Regards Dave
Good morning Dave...
I believe that I can answer your question about why the Model 1885 high-wall shotgun was serialized and the Models 36 & 41 were not...
The Model 1885 high-wall really was a "Rifle" that was simply converted to a shotgun. Winchester did not start making the Model 1885 high-wall shotguns until 1913 (circa serial number 113,700). It was designed as an inexpensive alternative (boy's first shotgun) to the newly released (and more expensive) Model 1912 20 gauge. The high-wall single-shot 20 gauge shotgun debuted simultaneously with the Model 1912, and they were both the very first Winchester shotgun Models offered in 20 gauge. For reasons unknown, it never became popular, and Winchester subsequently dropped it in 1918. Actual production numbers are not known (due to the lost factory records for that period in time), but through my own research, I estimate that somewhere between 600 - 800 of them were made. They are quite rare today, and worth a considerable sum of $$$$[^]
As for the Models 36 & 41, they were also built from a converted "Rifle" design... the Model 1900/1902/1904/Thumb Trigger. These were all inexpensive 22 caliber rimfire "boy's" rifles (that were patented by John Browning). None these Models was ever serialized, so no dies were available for the Model 36 & 41 (Winchester would have used/reused the same serial number dies if they had been made).
Hope that "cleared the air" on your musings[8D]
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Good day to you Bert. Although the Md 1885, Md 36 and Md 41 were converted rifle designs, and not serialized, the Md 20, the single shot 410 ga. which came out in 1919, and actually continued into the 30s for export,it was serialized.
Winchester usually serialized on the bottom of the receiver, and on some models the "tang". If they used a "roll die" or a numerical stamping machine, makes no difference.
Today there is a requirement to serialize receivers. Obviously in 1920 when the Md 41 came out, (Md 36 in 1921) through 1963 when they stopped making the Md 37 there was no Federal requirement.
The Md 21 which came out in 1930/31 time frame was serialized on the frame as well as the barrels, and Winchester did the same on the Md 24 when it came out in 1939.
It is my belief that they could have serialized, but there was no requirement too. Along with a saved step or two in manufacturing, thus saving a few pennies along the way. They could have serialized the Md 36 and 41 in the bottom of the receiver, however it wouldn't be visible, unless the stock was removed.
So could they have serialized, yes, but they didn't. So the question remains why? Regards Dave0 -
quote:Originally posted by only winchesters
Good day to you Bert. Although the Md 1885, Md 36 and Md 41 were converted rifle designs, and not serialized, the Md 20, the single shot 410 ga. which came out in 1919, and actually continued into the 30s for export,it was serialized.
Winchester usually serialized on the bottom of the receiver, and on some models the "tang". If they used a "roll die" or a numerical stamping machine, makes no difference.
Today there is a requirement to serialize receivers. Obviously in 1920 when the Md 41 came out, (Md 36 in 1921) through 1963 when they stopped making the Md 37 there was no Federal requirement.
The Md 21 which came out in 1930/31 time frame was serialized on the frame as well as the barrels, and Winchester did the same on the Md 24 when it came out in 1939.
It is my belief that they could have serialized, but there was no requirement too. Along with a saved step or two in manufacturing, thus saving a few pennies along the way. They could have serialized the Md 36 and 41 in the bottom of the receiver, however it wouldn't be visible, unless the stock was removed.
So could they have serialized, yes, but they didn't. So the question remains why? Regards Dave
Hello Dave...
Some of what I have written below is factual information, and some of it is my own personal thoughts & opinion (I do not want you, or anyone else to mistakenly believe that what I have to say is the gospel... be cause it really isn't necessarily so).
Your statement "If they used a "roll die" or a numerical stamping machine, makes no difference." is not quite correct in my opinion.
I believe that it did make a difference, and here is why... the exact same set of dies and machinery for stamping serial numbers was not used on "all" of the various models in production that were serial numbered. More specifically, there was one setup (dies and machine) used for the Model 1873, 1876, 1885 (early), and 1886 (early){new dies were used with the old machinery for the later made 1885 and 1886s}, a different setup for the Model 1892, 1893, 1894, 1897, 1912/12, 53, 55, 64, and 65, another setup for the Model 1890 & 1906 (and the later made slide action models), another setup for the Model 1887 and 1901, and another for the Self-loading models. There was never any machinery made to stamp serial numbers on the Models 1900/1902/1904/Thumb Trigger (which were the least expensive model to produce), and because the Model 36 and 41 shared the exact same design, Winchester most likely felt that it would not be cost effective to make any changes for those models.
The Model 20 was an entirely new design (and a much higher quality gun) when it was introduced in 1920 (along with the Models 36 & 41), and Winchester must have felt that it was worth the extra expense to make the necessary dies & equipment to serialize it. However, due to its higher cost, it only survived until 1924 (though as you pointed out, a few of them were made for several years to use up existing parts).
When the Model 3637 was designed and put into production (1936), our country was in the height of the Great Depression... and it only makes sense to me that Winchester (Olin) would cut whatever costs they could...
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
Bert, I think you are missing the real question, why wasn't the Md 37 serialized. The fact that others don't have serial numbers is interesting, but they were out of production by 1936 when the Md 37 was intoduced.
It's not that Winchester didn't have the capability, because they did. It's not because there was no place to stamp it, because there is. It's obvious that there was no Federal requirement to do so, because they didn't.
In earlier posts, I mentioned location as to the bottom of the receiver and tang area the most logical place to put a serial number. I mentioned other Models that have serial numbers that were stamped or roll died as a reference.
True that the Md 37 was an inexpensive gun at the time, but with what the cost of labor was in the mid-30s your not talking a 10-50% increase in cost to put a serial number on it.
Bert, I'm afraid that I have to correct you on the Md 36. It was introduced in 1920, not 1936. Ref. Maddis and Stadt. Also, Ref. Stadt, there were more Md 20s made between 1926-1935, than between 1919 and 1925. 1919-1925 they produced, 11248 guns, 1926-1935 they produced 12368 guns.
In summary, yes they had the capability to serialize. Apparently there was no Federal requirement to do so. And as we know they didn't serialize. (Must have been an Upper Management decision, LOL)
Then again who thought all these different Models back then, would become collectors today?
Regards Dave0 -
quote:Originally posted by only winchesters
Bert, I think you are missing the real question, why wasn't the Md 37 serialized. The fact that others don't have serial numbers is interesting, but they were out of production by 1936 when the Md 37 was intoduced.
It's not that Winchester didn't have the capability, because they did. It's not because there was no place to stamp it, because there is. It's obvious that there was no Federal requirement to do so, because they didn't.
In earlier posts, I mentioned location as to the bottom of the receiver and tang area the most logical place to put a serial number. I mentioned other Models that have serial numbers that were stamped or roll died as a reference.
True that the Md 37 was an inexpensive gun at the time, but with what the cost of labor was in the mid-30s your not talking a 10-50% increase in cost to put a serial number on it.
Bert, I'm afraid that I have to correct you on the Md 36. It was introduced in 1920, not 1936. Ref. Maddis and Stadt. Also, Ref. Stadt, there were more Md 20s made between 1926-1935, than between 1919 and 1925. 1919-1925 they produced, 11248 guns, 1926-1935 they produced 12368 guns.
In summary, yes they had the capability to serialize. Apparently there was no Federal requirement to do so. And as we know they didn't serialize. (Must have been an Upper Management decision, LOL)
Then again who thought all these different Models back then, would become collectors today?
Regards Dave
Dave... I mis-typed the Model number in the last paragraph of my previous post, and if you look back at the previous paragraph, you will see where I stated that the Model 36 was introduced in 1920. Please refer to my correction in red
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0
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