moon clips for every revolver
Does this work???
I read online somewhere of using a stiff wire of appropriate thickness to wrap around the rim-neck of rimless cartridges like the 9mm and 45ACP to function as moon clips and allow them to function in revolvers. i.e.
the 9mm with 'wire rims' could then be used in a 357 Magnum revolver,
or the 45 ACP +wire in a 45 Colt,
maybe a 32ACP in 32 H&R...
The thickness of the wire is enough to hold the primer at appropriate distance for the iring pin, but not enough to occlude the cylinder gap and bind the action.
Admittedly for emergency/novelty use only. But a buddy and i were having a discussion on the most versatile revolver caliber and we are stuck between the 357 Magnum and 454 Casull. Both can be loaded light: 38 Special target loads (90-110gr at 750 fps) and 45 Colt target (185-200gr @750fps) target all the way up to the handcannons: 200gr Corbon 357's or even the new Buffalo Bore 180gr 357's, and the 454 Casull 360gr @1500fps!
Now, if they could also be 'wired' to use, without modification to the gun, 9mm and 45 ACP it would increase their versatility tremendously.
But then I would have to concede that the 357 is much more versatile since the 9mm ammo would be so much more available.
38/357 ammo is more available as it is, but the increased power and thus effectiveness on a variety of targets of the 45/454 makes it a tough call. But the 9mm ammo is SOOOOO much more common...
We're not talking about winning any accuracy contests here, just function and safety.
So anyway, will wiring your own moon clips work?
(in all revolvers? none? some? which ones? any besides 32/357/45? etc)
thanks!
C-
___________________________
God, Guts, and Guns: keeping America Strong for 200 years.
(sig about Clinton's talk show changed, though I thought it was pretty creative without overt vulgarity)
I read online somewhere of using a stiff wire of appropriate thickness to wrap around the rim-neck of rimless cartridges like the 9mm and 45ACP to function as moon clips and allow them to function in revolvers. i.e.
the 9mm with 'wire rims' could then be used in a 357 Magnum revolver,
or the 45 ACP +wire in a 45 Colt,
maybe a 32ACP in 32 H&R...
The thickness of the wire is enough to hold the primer at appropriate distance for the iring pin, but not enough to occlude the cylinder gap and bind the action.
Admittedly for emergency/novelty use only. But a buddy and i were having a discussion on the most versatile revolver caliber and we are stuck between the 357 Magnum and 454 Casull. Both can be loaded light: 38 Special target loads (90-110gr at 750 fps) and 45 Colt target (185-200gr @750fps) target all the way up to the handcannons: 200gr Corbon 357's or even the new Buffalo Bore 180gr 357's, and the 454 Casull 360gr @1500fps!
Now, if they could also be 'wired' to use, without modification to the gun, 9mm and 45 ACP it would increase their versatility tremendously.
But then I would have to concede that the 357 is much more versatile since the 9mm ammo would be so much more available.
38/357 ammo is more available as it is, but the increased power and thus effectiveness on a variety of targets of the 45/454 makes it a tough call. But the 9mm ammo is SOOOOO much more common...
We're not talking about winning any accuracy contests here, just function and safety.
So anyway, will wiring your own moon clips work?
(in all revolvers? none? some? which ones? any besides 32/357/45? etc)
thanks!
C-
___________________________
God, Guts, and Guns: keeping America Strong for 200 years.
(sig about Clinton's talk show changed, though I thought it was pretty creative without overt vulgarity)
0
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as cheap and easy to acquire as 38 and 357 are, i dont think it would really be worth the trouble 0 -
I have been after this Holy Grail too, but I have become convinced that it isn't possible to fire a factory 9mm in a .357 Mag cylinder. Here is a thread that I started on this a few weeks ago:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=104812&SearchTerms=9mm
And there is an even more technical explanation here:
http://www.hk94.com/hk/index.php?showtopic=4083&hl=9mm
Basically, the 9mm is a tapered cartridge, so it won't fit in a .357 Mag/.38 Spl cylinder. Go ahead and try putting a 9mm in one of these cylinders and see for yourself. The better approach is to get manufacturers to offer 9mm convertible cylinders for their .357 models. Of course there is probably a lot of liability for this.
I agree with you, forget the accuracy issue, it's all about utility and cost for me. I like the idea of having a 9mm/.357 Mag/.38 Spl revolver.
Happy Shooting!
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -Gandhi0 -
The answer is kinda hidden in that second link I posted, so here is the actual text posted by a guy in that forum named BrowningBDA:
-begin quote-
"You wouldn't be able to fire the 9mm loads in your .357 GP100.... here's why.
"The full moon clips are basicaly for "extraction". Since these cartridges dont have a "rim" for the star extractor to grab onto.. You'd have to use a moon clip, which gives the star extrator something to grab.
"Its the same for rugers, S&W and taurus... and the older colts... which came in .45 acp or 9mm.
"BUT.... the 9mm cartridge also headspaces differently than a .38 or .357..... and its too short.... the bullet would leave the casing, unsupported, and travel aways before encountering the restriction at the end of the cylinder.. or the forcing cone of the barrel... and most likely, would "turn" slightly before reaching this area. Best case scenario... terrible accuracy. Worst case scenario... blown case from being unsupported or blown cylinder from excessibve pressure when the bullet doesn't enter the forcing cone "straight".
"The convertible rugers have a cylinder specially machined to support the 9mm round... and to headspace it correctly (on the case mouth, if I'm not mistaken).
"Besides... the 9mm would just "slide all the way in" a .357 chamber.... the moon clip wouldn't be strong enough to hold it against the breech face, so that when the firing pin hit... the cartridge would most likely move into the chamber deeper... and you'd get unpredictable ignition from light primer hits.
"Also... the .357 is a "straight walled" case.... the 9mm, is not... it is smaller in diameter at the case mouth than at the case base... by design. Tapered.
"So, basically, you have to get a cylinder specially machined... and use moon clips.... to be able to fire the 9mm.
"The medusa uses a different system for extraction... and will fire many more rounds than just those 3 you listed!! .38 super... ,38 long colt... 9mm largo.... basically... any .356/.357 diameter bullet."
-end quote-
Despite "slide all the way in" problem he mentions, I actually had the opposite problem due to the tapering of the 9mm cartridge.
Also, as a side note, the Medusa is a very interesting design. It is actually called the "Skorpion" now. Check out the website here:
http://www.reedercustomguns.com/revolvers/skorpion.htm
-WoundedWolf
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -Gandhi0 -
The first rule of shooting firearms is...Safety! N-rigging an engine is one thing, a firearm is another premise. Be safe, stick to the caliber the gun was desgined for. Loosing a hand or finger isnt worth the curiosity. 0 -
Amen, Boltthrower! 0 -
its stupid to even think such a thing. we aint mcgiver. we are professional gun owners on a professional website. we owe it to gb to steer clear of such threads. last thing some moron needs is to hurt himself and say he read it on gb. i vote to............poof it. 0 -
Hold on there, Bobski. I don't know if you are directing your response to cpileri or me, or both of us.
I was never promoting that anyone try anything. I don't go for the make your own moon clip idea, there are plenty of manufactured moon clips out there. My point is that we have three calibers of ammunition, 9mm, .357 Mag, and .38 Spl, that essentially use the same size bullet. There are revolvers out there that DO shoot all of these rounds out of the same barrel. One example is the Ruger Blackhawk.
I think it is perfectly logical to ask the question, "Why can't all .357/.38 revolvers shoot 9mm too?". Well, this thread gives them an answer. I hardly think it should be censored because some idiot might go out and try something stupid.
Before we jump up and get all excited, why don't we let people discuss this in an educated manner. I think it goes without saying that people should not experiment with their firearms in ways that they weren't designed. But then again, those hogue grips that we all have, and the triton sights, and the trigger job, etc... those aren't all factory spec either! Yet we wouldn't have any of that if someone didn't have the ingenuity to think it up in the first place.
Of course, safety always comes first.
Happy Shooting!
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -Gandhi0 -
Doesn't anybody remember the Phillips & Rogers "MEDUSA" or the very rare Colt Multi-caliber? 
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY0 -
"I hardly think it should be censored because some idiot might go out and try something stupid."
Thanks for steering me clear.
Isn't it fortunate that THIS idiot asked first!
C-
___________________________
God, Guts, and Guns: keeping America Strong for 200 years.
(sig about Clinton's talk show changed, though I thought it was pretty creative without overt vulgarity)0 -
I don't think you are an idiot, cpileri, for the simple fact that you had the sense to post your question here on this forum.
In fact, it's a good thing that this post didn't get pulled otherwise you may not have gotten the great advice that the folks on this forum excel at providing.
Happy (and Safe) Shooting to You All!
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -Gandhi0 -
discussing the thought of a piece of wire holding rounds in place to be fired doesnt sound like something an expert on gb should or would engage in. what one reads 'on line' these days is always subject to controversy. so why bring it 'here?' i say leave it 'out there.' i'd like to see gb stay strictly professional and avoid these 'so called ideas.' thats all im saying. im very concerned about such shade tree ideas falling into novice hands and coming back to haunt us afterwards. feel free to call it my 'high standards.'i will glady take any criticism.... and go to bed knowing i did my part.[;)] regards and respect to all.... 0
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