7.5 MAS
WILL A FRENCH MAS 7.5MM SHOOT THE SAME AMMO AS THE 7.5MM SWISS..ALSO HOW HARD IS IT TO FIND AMMO FOR EITHER ONE?THANKS,BRIAN!
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The 7.5 French & the 7.5 Swiss are two different cartridges, they are not interchangeable.
The 7.5 Swiss has a body diameter of about .020 larger then the 7.5 French.
Graf's carries loaded 7.5 Swiss ammo and 7.5 French brass for reloading.
http://www.grafs.com/bulkByBagQty.cfm/startItem/1
There is also a warning on their web-site about slamfires occurring in the French semi-autos using commerical primers. Naturally if your using one of the earlier bolt actions, this won't affect you.
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7.5X54 french ammo is available in new production ammo from Indep, it comes in a blue box. Also, surplus is available but isn't so good, esp. the syrian stuff, a lot of slamfires. In any case, expensive but not overly so.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf0 -
I've had pretty extensive experience with both of these rounds. Have a french 49/56 and a 36/51 both bought unissued from SOG a number of years ago. Also have a really nice Swiss 31 carbine that I got for a song from a gentleman around Chicago here that was going to scopes because of his eyes. All 3 have been true joys to own and shoot. The 36/51 and the Swiss are amongst the most accurate military guns I own and the sights on the 36/51 are, I think, my all time military favorite with it's well sized peep rear and chunky front blade; it is very quick to target and since it is so heavy its' recoil is quite pleasant for a 308 class cartridge.
Both of these rounds are a handloading proposition if you want to shoot at all economically. FNM ammo from Portugal has been available for some time and it is of course boxer primed and pretty good stuff. You will find it in from various sellers in Shotgun news. I try to stay away from the military stuff with the french as it is notoriously lousy stuff...especially the Syrian crap. Also is usually corrosive regardless of what they claim. I have also been fire forming for quite a while using 6.5 Swedish mauser brass although because of the difference in case body diameter it won't last more than about 5 loadings at medium pressure; 3 at higher pressures. Email back if you want my proceedures for making this conversion but I would say this is a somewhat advanced handloading technique. Dies from Lee are also quite reasonable for this round.
The Swiss round has been around for quite a while in the US and not only FNM but Norma make boxer brass. The military stuff I have used is in this case quite good but a bit expensive. I think it is actually made by Dynamit Nobel so you can assume the quality to be very good! This round was way ahead of its time when developed in 1911 and resembles the new short fat cartridges that are currently all the rage (it is a fairly fat case bodt on about 308 NATO length and has a large powder capacity). One very important thing to note here is that you need to be VERY careful about overloading this round as the case head is unsupported in this straight pull action and overstoking it can be REALLY detrimental to both rifle and shooter!! A face full of bolt can make for a very lousy day at the range/hospital!!! This is a beautifully made gun and although a bit clunky is a real shooters gun. It feels funky to hold by our American standards but I think you would get used to it and come to really appreciate its qualities.
To sum up, I think both of these rounds are handloaders sweethearts but if you are buying your ammo it can be a little expensive and frustrating as far as consistant quality goes..especially with the french round.
As for the aforementioned slam-fires from the French 49/56's; I too have seen and had this happen. One way around this is to use CCI military primers (sorry, cannot remember the number on those)as they tend to have a thicker metal membrane in front of the priming compound. Another way (the one I have been using for years)is to use a Lyman pocket uniformer and set them deeper than one normally would so as to avoid incidental firing pin contact. Also one should avoid overloading the roundso the mass of the bolt/firing pin does not come to battery so hard. The firng pin on these guns has no pin spring so it tends to run free and hard when returning to battery. The firing pin also seems to be about the size of a sixteen penny nail and I think outweighs one 2:1. Nothing to be done about that and the previously mentioned steps are likely more effective than any maching you would think to do anyway! Hope I've answered some of your questions...email back if there is anything else you need to know of if you would like some load data etc...good luck and have fun!!!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"
"History is written by winners"0 -
1KYDSTR,
I have the dies for forming 7.5 French from 6.5 Mauser and would be grateful if you would describe your methodology.
It's best to learn from someone who has done it before.
Thanks,
Best regards,Rich0 -
Hi Rich,
I am basically chamber fire forming without a bullet(sorry, I guess that is pretty obvious from what I said earlier!). The real key seems to be the wax plug I'm using over the cotton ball and corn meal. I start with primed R-P cases and After filling with about 15 gr. of Unique, I slipped one slightly larger than pea sized loose piece of cotton ball in on top (between powder and corn meal to prevent mingling) and went up to about the case shoulder with corn meal. Then I insert a balled piece of cotton ball about the size of a pea on top of the corn meal to fill to the base of the neck. At this point I use a spoon to pick up the melted wax from a pot and merely fill to the top of the neck which is not nearly as messy as you might suppose as it seems to wick down the neck when you touch the tip of the spoon to the case mouth and 'pour' it in. I use a loading block to put all the prepped cases in a line and thus keep loose powder away from the heat source. At this point you have a ready to fire-form case and trim to length and you don't have to worry about keeping the rifle pointed up either. I normally use an old bore snake and pull it through every 8 or 10 shots to keep the fouling to a minimum (it cleans well afterwards too). When I tried this at first I was not using one(wax plug) and I got some pretty poorly formed shoulders and less than fully expanded bodies. I bought a Lee RGB 2-die set which was really cheap. After the fire-form I simply ran them through the sizing die and went with a first load that was fairly light with a 150 gr. fmj to really move the case out to full expansion. One of the real drawbacks to this conversion is the smaller diameter of the 6.5 rounds base which limits case life to maybe 5 or 6 reloads; a lot of work for that few firings. It has since been my practice to use FNM brass and follow normal reloading proceedures but I still use the fire-form method for about 150 rounds a year; labor intensive but still worthwhile! Please email me back if this is not clearly explained or if you need more info. I cannot stand the French but these ARE fun guns to shoot and play around with and warrant the effort!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(?)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0 -
I personally find that the 6.5X55 needs no fireforming; simply trim to length, lube, full length size in the 7.5 die, and am done.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf0 -
I ran across a dealer this week that still had some of the Hansen 7.5 French ammo that was made in Yugoslavia. He says it is boxer primed and I bought the last 5 boxes he had for $12 each. I haven't fired any of it yet to see if it is boxer primed. I bought some of the 7 amd 8 mm Mauser ammo that they made about 10 years ago, and it was boxer primed. 0 -
Hansen made pretty good stuff and all to my knowledge was boxer primed. If you can find it for that kind of money you made a good score for sure! As to the fireforming answere given earlier...did you get a decent shoulder out of that method because I just could not! I forgot to mention that I lubed my cases too but it just did not seem to do the trick! I think I will try your method and matbe go up on the powder charge a little as that much less work would be a welcome change. Thanks for the input and I hope this works!
"When I cease learning...I'm dead"(Me)
"Power corrupts...Absolute power corrupts absolutely"(Descartes?)
"History is written by winners"(Patton)
"You get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than you do with a kind word alone!"(?)
"There is nothing lower than the human race...except the French" (Samuel Clemens)0
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