Damaged Firearms
Guess today is my day to get cranked up about poor to bad advice given in this forum. Just finished on decptive shipping info. Now to the matter of people inquiring about using a firearm that shows signs of damage and getting responses that advocate continued use.
The "I saw a barrel filled with bullets and ring after ring showing and it still shot fine" or some such "wind" is not very "smart".
Why did the barrel bulge to create the ring? Could we consider structural damage at the point of highest pressure ...
Same applies to cylinder deformations, or cases splitting in a particular cylinder or cylinders (using the right caliber ammo), lead splattering, etc. Something is wrong with the gun. It needs to be fixed or scrapped.
I can only assume that the members that give such "poor" advice have never seen someone injured by a firearm failure. To see someone in agony from a lost eye, shredded hand, etc. is not a pretty sight, and it's even worse when they are not the shooter of the weapon that failed. In my classes I have a couple failed guns that I pass around while I give a little history on each one, they sure are attention getters and that's what I want them to be.
If you only have time to do two things so-so, or one thing well ... do the one thing!
The "I saw a barrel filled with bullets and ring after ring showing and it still shot fine" or some such "wind" is not very "smart".
Why did the barrel bulge to create the ring? Could we consider structural damage at the point of highest pressure ...
Same applies to cylinder deformations, or cases splitting in a particular cylinder or cylinders (using the right caliber ammo), lead splattering, etc. Something is wrong with the gun. It needs to be fixed or scrapped.
I can only assume that the members that give such "poor" advice have never seen someone injured by a firearm failure. To see someone in agony from a lost eye, shredded hand, etc. is not a pretty sight, and it's even worse when they are not the shooter of the weapon that failed. In my classes I have a couple failed guns that I pass around while I give a little history on each one, they sure are attention getters and that's what I want them to be.
If you only have time to do two things so-so, or one thing well ... do the one thing!
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HERE HERE! what you say and more!
shooting is a fun sport and safe if done right. when anyone considers using a firearm (or any tool) that is in questionable condition they are putting themselves and everyone around them at risk. the resulting tragidy is no accident-it is a STUPID mistake!it is not a matter of IF this type of behaviour will result in misfortune but WHEN. Thanks for your patience, i'm done preaching now Jim
all I really need to know I learned in kindergarten "Robert Fulghum"0 -
Hey Contender Man, I saw you referred to "lead splattering" in this topic and I wanted to ask you what it is. I was shooting cast lead 240 gr SWC in the new Taurus .44 special over the weekend and noticied what appeared to be lead splattering around the ports. (the gun has 6 small ports at the end of the barrel) Is this a problem? Should I only shoot jacketed ammo w/ a ported barrel? This is my first handgun w/ported barrel. Please advise. 0 -
I don't recommend shooting cast lead, but if it is used the harder the better. Regardless, unless you are using the "ghetto grip" the ports are oriented straight up on that pistol so any splatter, which should be almost nil, is directed upward. However, as I stated before I don't recommend it.
The lead splattering I was referring to is around the cone where the bullet leaves the cylinder and enters the barrel as this indicates a mis-alingment between barrel and cone.
If you only have time to do two things so-so, or one thing well ... do the one thing!0 -
i can see risking damage or destruction to a possesion...
i can see risking a financial loss...
i can see risking public embarrasment...
i can see risking losing range priveledges...
i can see risking the loss of a gun you may never be able to replace, or repair...
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND RISKING YOUR LIFE!!!
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND RISKING YOUR EYESIGHT!!!
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND RISKING INJURY TO YOURSELF OR OTHERS!!!
DEATH IS PERMANENT...
THEY ARE ALL OUT OF REPLACEMENT EYEBALLS AT THE LOCAL GUNSHOP...
what am i missing???
best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind..0 -
Maybe we should list all of the common sence things, that are no longer common, That should not be done with a gun. Then maybe some hints as how to prevent bad things from happening to good people. Just a thought. [8D]
Greg
Former USMC
A N G L I C O0 -
Contenderman You generalize and project from a specific defect to another class of defects, when each gun defect type is a specific entity and needs to be considered by itself and on its' own merits.
It's ok to err on the side of safety in the absence of knowledge but if you don't know, why not ask. You might learn something you think you know but dont.
Whether it's a result of careless reading or a lack of understanding of technical aspects or experience I can't judge. But I don't think you really read my posts.
The M3 with bullets backed up to each other with successive bulges in the barrel was an example of how tough those barrels were. Nothing else was expressed or implied except that 20th century military barrels were tough, not brittle and with a low pressure cartridge, not likely to burst. Bulged revolver cylinders are a whole nuther deal as are bulged high pressure barrels, while a minor ring in a 22 barrel isn't likely to get worse.
Steels in general and barrel steels in particular got better in the second half of the 20th century. The few KABOOMS of Glocks are a special case involving caliber,heattreatment and notch sensivity. These events cannot be projected to other pistols of the same caliber
without close examination.
Ringed barrels often occur when a bullet pushes out a wave of oil, grease or snow and overrides it, bulging the barrel locally.0 -
Any mechanical, not cosmetic defect in cylinder, barrel, slide, frame that can be seen with the naked eye should be cause to NOT fire the gun as the shooter has no way to know the true extent of the damage.
You feel I singled you out, well your wrong, but you do make a good example ... multiple pressure bulges in a barrel and you still think it is good to shoot because they are tough barrels. Well you entitled to your opinion and to do as you please, I just hope when you make those decisions that others are not around you ... that way, one day, if you make a mistake ... no one other than you runs the risk of injury and if it ever does happen to you I sincerely hope there is no injury to anything other than your pride. I've seen way to many people hurt and that is not something I wish on anyone.
You make chide me for encouraging people to err on the side of safety ... fine, but that's what I feel is right and I think there are a majority out there that will go the same way if they are presented with the decision.
Regards ... CM
If you only have time to do two things so-so, or one thing well ... do the one thing!0 -
I'M NEW on this site. So I might talk out of turn. But ...
What you say is exactly correct, and when I started posting seven months ago, I stated some bad advice, even though I was researching like crazy. I got bad info from misinformed people. Or I formed the wrong conclusion and stated it like fact. And this is the begining of the fault.
In plumbing (my trade), I often say
"The hardest thing is knowing exactly what you are looking at".
It is easy to jump to conclusions, and if they prove right, you believe it to be the same in all cases. Yet this is false. Rarely does one condition point conclusively to only one situation.
Usually there are several possible reasons.
An open mind is best employed when looking at an event/problem/situation/occurance... etc.
J.0 -
Giving information and giving advice have one thing in common. The receiver is likely to misunderstand or mis-apply or mis-use the info or advice. In this forum a lot of contributors, with good intent, give bad, inaccurate or useless info. In a long life, I have learned one thing about people volunteering info or advice: the first ones to speak up are likely to be those who really know the least about the subject. Back to the subject at hand, if I decide to shoot a gun that has a known defect, I do it on my own responsibility and experience and don't talk about it, other than to someone I know to be at least as competent as I am. 0 -
Who said the submachinegun having a barrel filled up with bullets and bulges was fit to shoot? That barrel was destroyed.
The point I tried to make TWICE is that those SMG barrels were tough and not liable to burst or explode with low pressure cartridges like the 45ACP despite extreme circumstances as putting the barrel up to a tree and pulling the trigger till the bullets back up preventing chambering. In no way was it suggested or implied that the bullets be removed, that the barrel be continued in service or that this was a recommended practice.
If you can't understand those points I'm sorry, you're really lost.
People like yourself need to go to a gunsmith with gun problems you don't understand. Your error is in judgement of others who may not be as gun knowledge challenged as yourself.
Guns are very technical machines that may be hazardous to your safety
if you misinterpret anything about them as you've demonstrated you can do.0
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