Help with win.1886
A friend brought me a model 1886 win.and wanted to know what it is
worth,this is out of my area and i need some help.It has a 26 in.
octagon barrel,caliber is 40-70 (629 40-65 and 40-70 were made)
serial#99376 (1895)no bluing or case hardining left,metal is
bare,very little rust,no deep gouges but plenty of scratches.
The chamber and bore are good,back sight elevator is gone and
front sight is smashed,it cycles good and appears to be
mechanically sound,all numbers and letters are clear.I do not
believe there have been any alterations to this gun.The stock and
buttplate are origanal ,stock has several bad gouges,forearm has
a name carved in it.(deep)patent dates are 1894 and 1895 Based
on this information can someone give me a ballpark figure as to
the value of this gun?
arthur lux
worth,this is out of my area and i need some help.It has a 26 in.
octagon barrel,caliber is 40-70 (629 40-65 and 40-70 were made)
serial#99376 (1895)no bluing or case hardining left,metal is
bare,very little rust,no deep gouges but plenty of scratches.
The chamber and bore are good,back sight elevator is gone and
front sight is smashed,it cycles good and appears to be
mechanically sound,all numbers and letters are clear.I do not
believe there have been any alterations to this gun.The stock and
buttplate are origanal ,stock has several bad gouges,forearm has
a name carved in it.(deep)patent dates are 1894 and 1895 Based
on this information can someone give me a ballpark figure as to
the value of this gun?
arthur lux
0
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DOM 1895
they only made 164 that year, total production.
if the gun is in its original configuration, ie unaltered, and is functional with a shootable bore and chamber, with the above quoted BBL LENGTH / style and chambering, its woth at least $5000.00.
the recent onset in popularity in SASS and COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING has caused a sharp spike in the current evaluation and pricing on any "cowboy" related guns, especialy an original, pre-1900 WIN. rifle with a very limited / collectors intresting production run by the year of DOM.
even the poor / shot out / blown up / parts missing dogs are being bought up and restored / put back into shooting condition.
this is a very "restorable" gun, but you will destroy its monatary and collectors value unless its done right by someone like DOUG TURNBULL RESTORATIONS or another top rank pro.
its an interesting gun, and values are at an all time high right now. best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.0 -
Hello Arthur...
Your friend does have a relatively rare Model 1886 based on the cartridge chambering, and you are correct in that only 629 were made in the 40-70 W.C.F. cartridge (there were 16,315 actually made in the 40-65 W.C.F. chambering though). Too bad this rifle is in such rough condition... still, to the "right" collector, it would probably bring very close to $2000.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
quote:Originally posted by mrmike08075
DOM 1895
they only made 164 that year, total production.
mrmike...
Where did you get that information from? I am real curious as to your source of information. According to the records I have, 9,165 Model 1886s were made during the year 1895. Did you mean to say that only 164 were made in 40-70 W.C.F. during the year 1895? Please enlighten me.
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0 -
WINCHESTER DATES OF MANUFACTURE 1849-1984 FIRST EDITION
the book lists ser# ranges and production totals by year...they say the number made for 1895 on 1886 model rifles is 0164... i supose it could be a typo... i do not have my "good" books here at the shop. they list production total for 1013 as 3... (maybe i am reading it wrong, it looks to me like production for that year should be 5961).
i believe, from sales here at the shop, sales on GB and AA, sales at gun shows, auction catalogs, etc... that the current pricing trend on original 1886 rifles is to add at least 25% to blue book value to understand todays fair market pricing. also, the percentage of these guns in this chambering, with this BBL length / configuration makes it a very desirable gun even in this condition, assuming its correct and unalterted. best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mrmike08075
WINCHESTER DATES OF MANUFACTURE 1849-1984 FIRST EDITION
the book lists ser# ranges and production totals by year...they say the number made for 1895 on 1886 model rifles is 0164... i supose it could be a typo... i do not have my "good" books here at the shop. they list production total for 1013 as 3... (maybe i am reading it wrong, it looks to me like production for that year should be 5961).
i believe, from sales here at the shop, sales on GB and AA, sales at gun shows, auction catalogs, etc... that the current pricing trend on original 1886 rifles is to add at least 25% to blue book value to understand todays fair market pricing. also, the percentage of these guns in this chambering, with this BBL length / configuration makes it a very desirable gun even in this condition, assuming its correct and unalterted. best regards, mike.
Hello Mike...
Thanks for the quick reply. OK... first piece of advice - NEVER trust anything you read written by George Madis as it pertains to production numbers and dates! His written material (and quoted by many other sources) is terribly inaccurate to say the least[V]. I rely more on the information published by Herbert Houze (a former Winchester employee), and when in doubt, I always (when possible) check all Winchester serial numbers with Waddy or John at the Cody Firearms Museum (as a Sustainer member, I am entitled to 120 free serial number searches, and 5 free Factory letters per year).
I agree with you in that Model 1886 values are significantly higher than what is listed in the various price guides. I have attended every auction that Little John Gangel has held for the past few years, and I go to all three of the Las Vegas Antique arms shows each year, and recently I have been making the trip to Reno (and will be there next month for the April show). That said, from what I have observed, a standard Model 1886 (which is what Arthur described) in poor condition will not bring anywhere near $5000... even for a rare cartridge chambering (except maybe one in 50-110 Express).
Arthur described it as having a 26", octagon barrel (both of which were standard), and he made no mention of it having a set trigger, special sights, pistol grip, takedown, or deluxe wood. From all appearances, it is just a "standard" Sporting rifle in a relatively rare cartridge. He also mentioned that it has virtually no finish, that both sights need work, and the stocks are in rough shape.
You are correct in saying that it is a good candidate for a professional restoration, but Turnbull would not be my first choice. However, the cost of a quality (professional) restoration is not to be sneezed at (a least $3500 for that rifle, and possibly as much as $4500), and that fact must be factored into the purchase price. If somebody actually paid $5000 for the rifle, then forked out another $3500-$4500 to have it correctly restored, I seriously doubt that they would break even on the rifle if they were to sell it. I see a considerable number of Turnbull restored Model 1886s on tables at both the Las Vegas and Reno shows, and at the end of the show (3 days later), they are still sitting on the same table. The Winchesters that sell (or change hands) are those that are in reasonably good condition, unmolested, and in desirable caliber/cartridges (Model 1886s in 38-56 W.C.F. don't seem to move very well unless in superb condition).
Regards,
Bert H.
Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!0
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