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C&R recordkeeping question.....

DIRTYRAT
I have a c&r lic. and I have bought a few guns lately from pawn-shops, retail-stores etc...And have even sold a couple from my collection that I did NOT use my license to aquire...Am I still required to keep these "purchases/sales" recorded in my bound-book??? I had a collection before I got my c&r, If I sell any of these, Do I have to keep records of these as well???...Thanks in advance!

"I AM MY OWN WORST ENEMY"
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • p3skyking
    I am not a C&R, I'm a FFL, but this is how I was told to do it when I started.

    Became a FFL

    Got some personel weapons owned before I became a FFL

    Going to sell them? Since you are now a FFL and you sell guns, your personal guns for sale are now inventory/stock.

    Bound book? Guns were aquired from you. Make appropriate entries.

    Sell guns. Make appropriate entries in bound book.

    That's how it supposed to work, although sometimes people may not know that.

    Hope that helps your delimma.
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  • tapwater
    A good question that comes up often with various twists...I hold to the idea that I should keep two separate sets of books. All C&R purchases and sales in one book and previously owned guns in another....Both to be presented on demand by BATFE....I don't think that the non C&R book is required, it's just good policy to be on the up and up...I honestly cannot make sense out the leagalese in the book, so I choose to document everything....I stand eager to be corrected, informed, and enlightened.....

    The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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  • HAIRY
    I, too, have a CRFFL and when I purchase guns that are not on the CRFFL list, I have to fill out the 4473. Since that reports my purchase and the dealer keeps the form, I see no reason to start bookkeeping for duplicate purposes. Needless to say, ALL CR guns are entered in my CR bound book. From what I've seen, there are no clear instructions about this.




    There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

    Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
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  • tapwater
    p3 , that sounds like good policy, though I think it may differ somewhat for a C&R...anyway it could never hurt to book any sales through the C&R bound book. It would look better in their eyes I'm sure.....by the way, I've called Atlanta on this and ....well, let's just say that they're nice folks, but getting a definitive answer can be tough....[:D]

    The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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  • Babalooie
    I recently go a C&R license. It's my understanding that you only keep purchases and sales made using the C&R license recorded in the C&R log.

    While it's prudent to keep a record of sales and purchases made without using your C&R just for CYA purposes, this should be kept separate. Otherwise, some individuals may become confused

    The other thing I was told, is to be careful not to fall into the trap of buying too many of the same item and selling off your excess. This apparently raises a red flag with inspectors and could cause a lot of unnecessary grief.

    Regards,





    "That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietsche
    "Only the strong survive."
    - Jerry Butler
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  • D@D
    Babalooie is right only those you aquired with C&R must be put in the books.
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  • jnmiller75
    For a C&R FFL holder,

    Previous owned C&R firearms are not required to be entered in your bound book, UNTIL you dispose of them. Then you need to enter them in your bound book. In the aquired section just put previous owned, and fill out the disposed section like you normally would.
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  • p3skyking
    Just like I posted.
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  • Babalooie
    BTW, a while back I made up a log sheet using Microsoft Excel. It's in the format laid out in the rules and regulations for C&R record keeping. If anyone wants a copy, send me an e-mail and I'll forward it to them.

    Regards,

    B.

    "That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietsche
    "Only the strong survive."
    - Jerry Butler
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  • EOD Guy
    quote:Originally posted by D@D
    Babalooie is right only those you aquired with C&R must be put in the books.

    According to both the ATF and the regulation, ALL acquisitions and dispositions of C&R firearms must be recorded in your bound book. It doesn't matter if you used your license to purchase them or not. Previously owned firearms don't have to be entered unless you dispose of them while you are licensed.

    BATF has periodically put out letters reemphasising that fact.

    See 27CFR178.125(f)which reads as follows: "Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics." Note that no mention is made of "using" your license.
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