Need Info: Old German Single shot .22 Weird One
I have this old German .22 single shot that is bizzare in the way it works. The gun has a 19" barrel, and on top of barrel it says Deutsche Werke-WerkErfurt, the left side of barrel says Cal.22 Kurz, the right side of barrel says Made in Germany. The top of Rec. has a circle with what appears to have a LS or whatever. I can't make out what the symobol is. The left side of rec. has a single eagle proof mark and Crown B proof. The bottom of the barrel has Single Eagle proof and Crown B proof and 5,4mm The side of the stock has a circle with LS in it or maybe a lion with long tail. But it is the same proof as what is on top of the rec. This gun operates by pulling back on the know and opening the top of the rec. and then putting shell inside and pulling knob back and cocking it then pull the trigger. I can take pics for anyone who needs them. If anyone knows what this gun might be, or worth and when it was made, please reply. Thanks
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It also says Mod. I on the top of rec. as well. Thanks 0 -
Sounds like another of the Ortgies single shot rifles. There were also a few rimfire shotguns made which used the same action and all types are worth around $150 when found in nice shape. I've never seen a new or unfired example so those must be very hard to locate and would no doubt bring a premium. There may be some collector interest in these longuns but most folks (including yours truely) concentrate on the Ortgies pocket pistols.
Mark T. Christian0 -
As Mark has said, we have had a number of posts in the past regarding this type of Deutsch Werke/Ortiges .22 rifle.
Your's is by far the most interesting because of the proof marks.
I was always under the impression that Deutsch Werke/Ortiges had gone out of business during the depression in the early 30's.
The "Eagle" proof mark on your rifle is the post 1939, ( Nazi Proof Law of 1939 ) for what are called Flobert Rifles. I have never run across this proof before on these rifles. It doesn't seem possible to me that your rifle was actually manufactured in that time frame. My only guess would be that it was assembled from previously manufactured parts that had been in storage for years?
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It should be a .22 short. The Eagle proof is possibly Weimar era which would clear up everything. Are the eagle wings outstretched or drooping downward?
The company was known as ERMA during the thirties and in fact, still exist in greatly different form today.0 -
You're right p3; kurz=short in German.
OleDuk[:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
It should be a .22 short. The Eagle proof is possibly Weimar era which would clear up everything. Are the eagle wings outstretched or drooping downward?
The company was known as ERMA during the thirties and in fact, still exist in greatly different form today.
The Weimar era eagle proofs with downward drooping wings, to the best of my knowledge were only used on military firearms.
The German Commercial Proof Marks remained the same between 1912 & 1939, i.e. when the Weimar Republic came to into power after the First World War, the German commerical proofs weren't affected.0 -
Rufe, you are correct, but you've never seen an EagleN next to a BUG Proof either have you? Not even on repaired weapons will you find this. I am anxious to see what kind of wings the eagle has. Being at Erfurt, it's entirely possible someone got a hold of a Weimar stamp. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
Rufe, you are correct, but you've never seen an EagleN next to a BUG Proof either have you? Not even on repaired weapons will you find this. I am anxious to see what kind of wings the eagle has. Being at Erfurt, it's entirely possible someone got a hold of a Weimar stamp.
As I said in my first post, this is a "Flobert" rifle i.e. .22 short. The 1939 proof for "Flobert" rifles was just a spread winged eagle ( no letter under it )
I don't recall ever seeing pre and post 1939 ( together ) proofs on a newly manufactured firearm either.0 -
I ran across a gun mutch like the one you describe a few months ago. Took it to my gunsmith who said that it was called a "rook" gun, and was an inexpensive gun often used by groundskeepers on some european estates to deal with pests. Very unusual yet simple action. 0 -
Hey guys, I appreciate all the info on this one. The wings are outstretched on the Eagle Proof. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jigga
Hey guys, I appreciate all the info on this one. The wings are outstretched on the Eagle Proof.
This is what makes Gun Collecting interesting, when anomalies like this show up.0 -
Does this gun here have the rare markings on it then? I'm not sure I followed that. Do I have an unusually marked gun? Thanks 0 -
I just picked up one of these to restore. Same exact model same markings, only it is in 22 long rifle. The eagle above the finnished gun proof(crown is weimar era. Fun little rifles but not a Flobert
variant. Had a Gecco that was similar, years ago.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jigga
Does this gun here have the rare markings on it then? I'm not sure I followed that. Do I have an unusually marked gun? Thanks
We seem to have a difference in opinion here. I believe it's very unusual to have a "spread wing eagle" which is the post 1939 proof mark for Flobert Rifles, on the same rifle that also has a "Crown B" proof. As the company who originally made the rifle Deutsch Werke/ Ortgies had been out of business for at least 6 years at that time.
Pitanh disagrees with me he maintains that the eagle proof is a Weimar proof, which I can't except.
He also doesn't understand the Germans classed rifles that were chambered for .22 short cartridges as Florbert Rifles. Weather they had the classic Flobert action or not.0 -
I also believe it is Weimar era. I have a 1920 Commercial Luger with spread wing. Not an export Luger either. I also believe the weapon was probably made in the 20's or it would have been marked ERMA. 0
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