Assault Rifle Recommendation Question
I would like to register a preban full auto assault rifle. I know the procedure. I do have a few questions about what to get though.
Should I go with an M-16 or an AK-47? I'd like it to be accurate like an M-16. But is a .223 really effective as a defensive as well as sport shooting load? Also, I like the AK's rate of fire at 600 RPM. Just right. What rate of fire does the M-16 have? I have heard that the M-16 is accurate up to 500 yards. Would a .223 really have any stopping power at that range?
Any recommendations are appreciated.
Should I go with an M-16 or an AK-47? I'd like it to be accurate like an M-16. But is a .223 really effective as a defensive as well as sport shooting load? Also, I like the AK's rate of fire at 600 RPM. Just right. What rate of fire does the M-16 have? I have heard that the M-16 is accurate up to 500 yards. Would a .223 really have any stopping power at that range?
Any recommendations are appreciated.
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I assume you mean that you want a machinegun which is already registered to be transfered to you using an approved From 4 because there is no way to register a new machinegun for transfer today. Do you intend to purchase conversions or the original weapons? A transferable Colt M16 is going to cost you around $9000+ and an original AK is in the $15,000+ range. If you go with conversions a lot depends on exactly who did the work on the guns in the first place. The rate of fire with converted Semi AR-15's can range from 600 to 750 RPM or even higher depending on the type of buffer used and original Colt M16s had very high rates of fire in the 800 to 900 RPM range but this was dropped much lower in the M16A1 series. Converted AKs are in the $6,000+ range and AR-15 conversions sell for around the same money (or more) so I have to ask you what your budget is for this project? By the way, forget all about the possible use of a machinegun for defensive purposes...it is sport shooting or nothing. I'd never dream of using one of my restricted sales sample M16's as a home defense gun! I'm curious as to your experinces with machineguns which lead you to believe that 600 RPM is just right?
Mark T. Christian0 -
I understand about the whole pricing thing etc. I believe that 600 rpm is good because at 10 rps gives you a good rate of fire while conserving ammo (a 30 round mag lasting 3 seconds in an M-16 gives more time shooting than say a 32 round mag in a MAC-10 giving about 1.5 seconds). Also, why wouldn't you use a full auto for defensive purposes? 0 -
Try to justify the use of a registered machinegun to a jury in a self defense case...I don't see it happening! I'm pleased that you have pockets deep enough to support your hobby as most members here only dream of owning either of those two firearms types. I sell Colts to LEOs for a living and I'd chose an M16 over an AK every time. On the other hand I've spent a decade traveling though Eastern Europe on firearms related business and have fired tens of thousands of rounds through Kalashnikovs of all types and I have a real liking for them as well. The M16 has the edge in accuracy and is a better built firearm but I think the AKs are much more fun to shoot...but then I fire Colts all the time so they are nothing special to me anymore. If you go with the M16 or you interested in an original Colt, a converted AR-15 using a registered receiver or a conversion using a drop-in auto sear? I don't care for the sears at all (my opinion only) and would always opt for the registered receiver guns, although you can't go wrong with OEM if you have the money!
Mark T. Christian0 -
a full auto for sporting use? what are you hunting, taliban? if you are indeed a certified class 3 dealer, you scare me. 0 -
When I say sporting, I mean as in target shooting. I'm not a Class 3, just an individual who would like to register a preban model. If a full auto was registered before May 19, 1986, it can be transferred to people who can pass a background check and go through a mountain of paperwork.
If the thought of a machinegun in the hands of a law abiding citizen scares you, I can recommend some more appropriate message boards for you to frequent.0 -
i dont frequent this board, i live here. check the numbers. its not the fact that you are a citizen wanting a full auto in your hands that scares me, its the message you are sending by the way you posted your query that leads some of us to wonder if there is a full deck that goes with that full auto.[B)] case in point, who in blazes would be interested in accuaracy with a 16 or 47? you obviously dont know the first thing about these firearms or you wouldnt have asked such nieve questions. but none the less, many here (holding back laughs) have given you some good advice and input. take it and good luck with your quest to defend your rights as an american with a gun you probably never fired before. "would a 223 have any stopping power at that range?".... whatya need a full auto for at 500yds? try this experiment...have a guy with a 47 or 16 sit on a bench, then you go stand 500 yds away and tell him to aim it at you without telling you if its loaded or not. when you see him shoulder the gun decide if you should duck. that sensation that you would feel surge thru you is the sensation that you were about to die. would that answer your question? for the record, i can pop an orange at 600yds with iron battle sights in 223 and 308, 8 out of 10 times. warm regards...an american veteran 22 years. (ps guys...every so often my button gets pushed. guess what it takes? stuff like this.) otherwise im a cool calm and collective guy as you all know. [xx(] btw...dsmith welcome to gb. got any more valid questions for us? we are eager to help.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0 -
bobski,
I call bullsnot on batting .800 on the 600yd orange,with issue iron sights,in either 223 or 308.
The National Record,is as follows(http://www.northfloridashooting.com/Misc/MatchResults/NationalRecords/Records.pdf).
The 600yd Target is of the following dimensions(http://www.tngbbs.com/rifle/nra/hp/Section4.html). Cutting to the chase,the 600yd X-ring is 1MOA(6"). Cutting further,it would be a grandiose Orange that encompassed the full six inch latitude of that X-ring and the National Record is just a trifle above your lofty claim,despite many competitors and much practice being spent to trump it(da record).
Long way of sayin',you can bullsnot the fans,but you can't bullsnot the players.........................0 -
Moderation ain't my gig. Rest assured "Bullsnot" weren't MY lingo.
Regardless,the crux remains focused...................0 -
"Pop an orange 8 out of 10 times from 600 yards with a 223 with only iron sights"
You would have to show me that one for me to ever believe it. I question if you can even see an orange from 600 yards away.
"Have a gun that works every time. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."0 -
BULLSKI, YOU ARE AT "IT" AGAIN!!!!!!!!
I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.0 -
Reading his tagline,I Formulate that his imagination is grand.
Honor/Integrity are steeped by folks in such disciplines and blowing smoke out one's azz isn't coddled. SEAL phonies are easily routed and there are Sites devoted to such undertakings,by those who have earned such privelages and respect.
Where there is smoke,there is fire.....................0 -
I have a friend, a former Marine who saw a lot of action in Nam. A LOT of action. One day I was in a gunshop with him looking at guns. Soon, the saleman and him were in a big arguement about who could hit what with an M60 at 1000 yards. Both their claims were outrageous, as far as I could tell. After we left the shop, I asked him if he could really do what he was claiming. He admitted he couldn't, and he said, neither could the guy he was talking to. The salesman decided to stack it on high, so my friend was just egging him on. My friend explained that people who make such claims about their ability are just asking for an arguement. I think I learned not to believe any of what someone claims they can do with a firearm that day. Those people who who do shoot well don't have to boast about it.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
An example:(http://www.cyberseals.org/)..................... 0 -
[|)]
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
Here in NY we can only dream about class III [V] 
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A miscommunication is a reality of cyber-communications.
Spinning bald faced yarns,is careful manipulation by those who house no integrity values. Mistakes will happen and I'll assuredly make mine,but they'll NOT be under the guise of a respected Fraternity that I did not belong to,nor bask under their respective glow.
I hold such orders in high esteem,mainly because I've dealt with their individuals and can smell a Poser a mile away.
I reiterate: Where there is smoke,there IS fire.....................0 -
Well, sorry bobski, I thought you were attacking me based on the fact that I wanted a full auto. No, I don't want anybody to think of me as dangerous. I'm not yet 21, and I'm saving every penny I possibly can so I can register a gun. The one I really want is an MP5K-PDW, but I won't have the $11,000+ to buy one when I turn 21. I am looking for cheaper alternatives to "hold me over" with some fun shooting until I have the cash to buy an MP5K-PDW.
I saw that an M-16 might be more in my price range, but I was leaning toward the more expensive AK because a lot of people seem to like them (I don't see any foreign armies using M-16's). But the question ultimately arose: If I'm going to buy a rifle to replace my MP5, shouldn't I be looking for the most accurate? One whith which I could have fun shooting full auto as well as making aimed semi-auto shots.
Once again, sorry if I scared you before, I just want some expensive "toys" as somebody here put it. I am weighing the pros and cons of the prospective guns. The very fact that I am willing to pay $11,000 for a gun along with a $200 transfer tax along with the dealer's charge + shipping and the mountain of paperwork instead of buying it off the streets should give you at least some confidence on my intentions.0 -
.223 or 5.56 ammo is going to get real expensive for you, and you CAN'T used the laquered crap in it(wolf, barnaul, dont kow about S&B?), so you would have to buy the more expensive ammo. My AR gets very hot very fast when I blow through my 30rder and at high temps the laquer will basically become a glue and the shell will get stuck in the chamber. AKs (from what I hear) will have no problem with any type of ammo, so you could by a couple case's of wolf and be set for one day. now it does concern me that you ask about the stopping power of a .223 at 500yrd, you plan on hunting with this rifle? 30-40rds in the body of an intruder may not be good for your defense, they might even confiscate the firearm and destroy it. Class III firearms(excluding some) are "toys" not weapons, if I had a fullatuo I wouldn't surpass 200yds aiming for something big like a car and put a tracer, say, every third round. I have read some of your other posts and you don't seem that "sure" about the class III laws, so you will probably be suprised of the work involved when you go to buy one.
I hope you have a good job or you wont be shooting it as often as you may think, ammo goes fast even with semi-autos. And yes there are better things to spend your money on.
Spring 1911-A1 Mil-Spec
Glock 19C
Cav Arms CAV-15 MKII(AR-15)
S&W 19-4 .357 Mag 6" bbl
Henry Lever Action 22Mag
Marlin/Glenfield Mod 60
Russian M380
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